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Preparing to start full time but need to buy the toy hauler


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Again my two cents. I have to agree with NJTroy. Unless the safety hitch can increase the capacity of your frame drivetrain and rear end to tow then you are adding more wieght and drag for you truck to pull. As I stated earlier you may get by on flat ground. But do you want to be traveling only there? Will you want to take it up a hill or into the mountains? What will the truck be worth with a shelled rear end or snapped drive line? How about the cost of towing to a repair shop?

He also brought up something that I had not thought of, triple tow. Even if you manage to convince most police officers that this setup is not triple tow what happens when you find that one you can't convince?

Have you talked with an insurance agent to see if they will even consider covering things? Will they be charging extra? If they do how does it offset the cost of the truck?

How much does the cost of the safety hitch add to the cost of the rv? Realize that this adds more tires to be maintained and replaced.

There are more things to consider then just hoping to get around the GVRW of your current truck.

Have you considered instead of getting rid of your truck looking at something your current truck CAN tow safely? Perhaps this would be a better option.

Just my opinion yours may vary

The engin and transmission including gearing is the same as a Ram 3500. At this point, it may be learned that adding two tires and brakes are as good or maybe better than having a 3500.

 

I'm switching to the Tesla 3970 which has a nice lL shaped couch with another facing it. The TV is easier seen by the L couch for sure.

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I did go and look at your attachment from Sanger, TX. That feature is not a new idea and without repeating what NJTroy, Hopeimakeit, and others have said, I would agree with their opinions. Personally I really think you are triple towing in all states, you have two independently towed devices being towed by a single vehicle. If you have never towed a bumper pull RV then you don't know the effects a big rig can cause on a truck with two rear tires when it passes you, even with a dually rear end it can be a traumatic event. You want your center of gravity to be as close as you can get to the center of your truck bed. If you travel in the east and north east their length laws are very short, ie; my truck is a Ford F450 dually with an 8' bed, my RV is 39' with triple axles, when ready for towing that combination together exceeds 60 feet, also because I have an RV ladder on the side of my RV that makes my RV 8'6" wide, all that exceeds the laws in many states. If you make it to California you will find the Highway Patrol there takes pleasure in stopping out of state RV'ers.

Thanks again for hearing us all out on our opinions, good luck to you on what ever you decide to do.

 

PS. Buy your big RV and trade your truck to fit the RV.

 

Very good feedback on the length. I have to really check that. I did tow a 33 ft bumper pull between Dallas and Nashville. I've dealt with some of the pull from big rigs. I'll look into the laws regarding length and width. I believe the Tesla is also 8'6" wide. If California enjoys pulling RV's over, I'll gladly avoid that state.

 

I wish I had a 1 ton but I'll lose far too much on a trade in because of the after market accessories which won't be transferable. I have to use a good alternative if I can find a safe and legal one.

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You need a 3500 DRW. You asked for input, you got both educational materials, the advice of folks with much more experience than you and references to why what you are planning is risky and illegal in many jurisdictions. If you aren't interested in learning from others, then don't ask.

 

I'm done.

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You need a 3500 DRW. You asked for input, you got both educational materials, the advice of folks with much more experience than you and references to why what you are planning is risky and illegal in many jurisdictions. If you aren't interested in learning from others, then don't ask.

 

I'm done.

I didn't realize you were an expert on the legality of the safety hitch or on whether it is certified to do or not. I appreciate the advice which has me checking the LAW. I'm reading about the laws now and will check with the DMV in Texas at least. I won't stop with advice from a message board. It's a source.

 

https://rv-roadtrips.thefuntimesguide.com/2009/07/triple_towing.php

 

On this site, they discuss triple towing including when it's allowed if using a safety hitch is even considered triple towing. One time they reference is when all have brakes that operate together. The safety hitch does.

 

I'll post what I learn about the law for those who may be interested. If no one is, I'll drop it. Thanks for the input.

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Was going to post tow data, leagal length data, and others today but after reading what has transpired since my last post I realized that some of us on the forum may have misunderstood what was going on.

I believe that we thought you wanted information and considered opinions when you really wanted validation.

Let me apologize for my mistake. I would also like to wish you luck in your endeavor.

See you on the road!

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Look at the weights. Look at the Gross Combined Weight Rating for your truck. It should be inside the door jam. Then add the weight of the safety hitch and the max weight of the toyhauler. If your safety hitch and RV weigh within 10% of the rating, then you'll be overweight on the truck.

I had a 2500 Dodge with all the goodies- twin turbo, dual CP3 pumps, firehose injectors, 600hp and 1100 TQ, PacBrake exhaust brake. It would pull anything..... but it didn't stop crap, and the airbags on the rear axle had to be at 65-70psi to level the truck when hooked up.

So in the name of safety and another project I converted the truck into a dually. Rolled the wide 2500 rear axle out, rolled the 3500 narrow axle with overload springs in,put the airbags back on to level the truck with 4500lbs of pin weight, made some MegaCab dually fenders, put new brakes all around and off we went. It almost did ok, except the RV still pushed the truck around on bad roads, and in a panic stop, which we had 2 of, the RV brakes couldn't slow the weight enough for the truck. Truck worked as designed- Pacbrake closed, transmission downshifting, Anti-lock brakes pulsing under my foot, but the 5'er was pushing us down the road with its own wheels skidding.

Our Carrilite weighs 19010lbs which is in the same range or lighter than any 40+ toyhauler will be.

My suggestion would be to remove the goodies from the 2500 and buy a late model 3500 that has more capability and is more matched for the weight. We ultimately moved to a HDT.

There's also an old saying that if you use 100% of your capability 100% of the time, something is going to fail 100% at the least opportune time.

Alie & Jim + 8 paws

2017 DRV Memphis 

BART- 1998 Volvo 610

Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins

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Was going to post tow data, leagal length data, and others today but after reading what has transpired since my last post I realized that some of us on the forum may have misunderstood what was going on.

I believe that we thought you wanted information and considered opinions when you really wanted validation.

Let me apologize for my mistake. I would also like to wish you luck in your endeavor.

I'm taking this good input and opinions and validating the situation with the manufacturer, independent testing org, and DMV. Hopefully most people would do the same before making any such purchase or deciding to make decisions that may cost 40K+. Thus far I learn that the length of the safety hitch is excluded from the length calculation by all states and Canada. It is considered as a safety device and adds 50% to vehicle breaking and 50% plus to vehicle GVWR. It is also used by plenty of handicapped people which I am not. I will have the certified and notarized letter tomorrow. The letter will then go to the DMV to confirm.

 

To answer another person, my truck has the exact same turbo diesel and transmission as the Ram 3500. A lower gear ratio isn't even offered as an option on either model. The safety hitch also does steer when the turn signal is enabled. It will turn sharper than any truck pulling a trailer without the safety hitch. I've seen it first hand.

 

I'll continue to post updates for anyone interested. For those not, feel free to ignore. Maybe we'll all learn something new here.

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Look at the weights. Look at the Gross Combined Weight Rating for your truck. It should be inside the door jam. Then add the weight of the safety hitch and the max weight of the toyhauler. If your safety hitch and RV weigh within 10% of the rating, then you'll be overweight on the truck.

I had a 2500 Dodge with all the goodies- twin turbo, dual CP3 pumps, firehose injectors, 600hp and 1100 TQ, PacBrake exhaust brake. It would pull anything..... but it didn't stop crap, and the airbags on the rear axle had to be at 65-70psi to level the truck when hooked up.

So in the name of safety and another project I converted the truck into a dually. Rolled the wide 2500 rear axle out, rolled the 3500 narrow axle with overload springs in,put the airbags back on to level the truck with 4500lbs of pin weight, made some MegaCab dually fenders, put new brakes all around and off we went. It almost did ok, except the RV still pushed the truck around on bad roads, and in a panic stop, which we had 2 of, the RV brakes couldn't slow the weight enough for the truck. Truck worked as designed- Pacbrake closed, transmission downshifting, Anti-lock brakes pulsing under my foot, but the 5'er was pushing us down the road with its own wheels skidding.

Our Carrilite weighs 19010lbs which is in the same range or lighter than any 40+ toyhauler will be.

My suggestion would be to remove the goodies from the 2500 and buy a late model 3500 that has more capability and is more matched for the weight. We ultimately moved to a HDT.

There's also an old saying that if you use 100% of your capability 100% of the time, something is going to fail 100% at the least opportune time.

Thanks for this story. I have the same concerns about the air bags which is why I'm making the effort to evaluate the safety hitch which sits on a 1 - 1.5 ton axle(rated for 6500 lbs tongue weight) with onboard hd hydraulic brakes which stop in concert with the truck and trailer brakes.

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I'm taking this good input and opinions and validating the situation with the manufacturer, independent testing org, and DMV. Hopefully most people would do the same before making any such purchase or deciding to make decisions that may cost 40K+. Thus far I learn that the length of the safety hitch is excluded from the length calculation by all states and Canada. It is considered as a safety device and adds 50% to vehicle breaking and 50% plus to vehicle GVWR. It is also used by plenty of handicapped people which I am not. I will have the certified and notarized letter tomorrow. The letter will then go to the DMV to confirm.

To answer another person, my truck has the exact same turbo diesel and transmission as the Ram 3500. A lower gear ratio isn't even offered as an option on either model. The safety hitch also does steer when the turn signal is enabled. It will turn sharper than any truck pulling a trailer without the safety hitch. I've seen it first hand.

I'll continue to post updates for anyone interested. For those not, feel free to ignore. Maybe we'll all learn something new here.

Actually Ram has offered a 4.10 rear end with the 3500 diesel with the aisan transmission since 2014, and is still offered with the 2016.

The Aisan transmission means that the cummings does not have to be derated to keep from shelling the normal transmission.

This allowed ram to list a 30000 towing capacity for the first time in 2014.

In fact they still offer three different gear ratios for the 3500.

I am only familiar with the 3500 6.7 dually. They may not offer these with a srw or a 2500.

See you on the road!

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Sorry I keep thinking I will leave this alone but then I think of the DW and I possibly sharing the same road with you.

This is going to be a long and simplified post.

The 2015 ram has a towing capacity of 17870 so call it 18000.

Now let's say I give you a wagon on a flat piece of pavement with a small incline at the end. You are able to pull the wagon up to the top of the incline. I begin adding wieght until you can no longer move the wagon up to the top. In essence we have found your max towing capacity. In this example we have not brought in a pin wieght but let us add another set of wheels to the wagon. Say in the middle. This does not increase your towing capacity but in all likelihood decreases it due to the wieght of the added wheels and the slight amount of drag from them.

Now let us return to the towing capacity of the ram as mentioned earlier. We are going to assume that since Rams engineers designed it and that ram built it this number is somewhat accurate.

Perhaps now would be a good time to mention that the towing capacities are figured with about a 150 lbs person driving with a half full fuel tank and a low profile trailer. Most of us in the real world have a bit more than that in the cab, cellphones, MP3 players, maps or books, some of us even wiegh more. We also travel with full tanks of fuel and high profile trailers.

You have stated you are looking at purchasing a tesla 3970. We will again use the wieght supplied by the manufacturer. This is listed as 15080. That means as it comes off the factory floor.

Now we are going to get ready for a trip.

We put only 20 gallons of water in the rv. This fills the hot water tank and allows 10 gallons of fresh water. Water wieghts a little over 8 lbs per gallon but we will call it 8. This adds 160 pounds to the rv.

We put in a shirt, pants, change of underwear, a loaf of bread, a jar of peanut butter, a knife and plate. Call this 20 pounds.

You are getting a toy hauler so am going to assume that you have a toy. We are going to put in an 80 lbs mini bike.

We are not putting in any batteries so the lights, heater, nor refrigerator are going to work. We are not filling any propane since we are not taking anything to cook.

We now hook up the safety hitch which we are going to say wieghts 600 lbs. Not much wieght for a safety device.

Now let's look at the wieght we will be towing. 15080, 160 lbs of water, 20 lbs of food and clothing, 80 lbs for the mini bike. 600 lbs for the safety hitch all told 15940.

Anyone who has done any towing will tell you that you should always tow 10% under the max rating of your tow vehicle. 10% is the BARE minimum for a safe tow. So using that number you can safely tow 16200 of rv and contents.

This means you can tow the rv and the items that we listed no problem.

If this is your idea of how you want to live you might even be able to add a few items. But only 260 pounds. You begin to add too much and you go past the tow rating for your truck.

Remember how tow rating was calculated with a light wieght person, low profile trailer, nothing in the cab. The 10 % rule allows for heavier loads in the cab, higher profile, and not having to be spot on with Wieghts.

Rember you also need to consider that the rv is only rated to carry so much wieght so you need to keep that in mind. Go over that wieght and you risk an axle or frame failure.

So it is not just about what the truck can handle for weight on the frame.

Now I will leave you to your own devices.

See you on the road!

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We now hook up the safety hitch which we are going to say wieghts 600 lbs. Not much wieght for a safety device.

 

No way on earth that thing weighs only 600 lbs. Maybe I should say I'd be shocked if it weighs only 600 lbs. You realize it has it's own axle, tires and brakes, right?

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No way on earth that thing weighs only 600 lbs. Maybe I should say I'd be shocked if it weighs only 600 lbs. You realize it has it's own axle, tires and brakes, right?

I am well aware that the 600 is very low. I did not have the exact info on the op's truck so I chose a high towing capacity from ram's tow chart. I also have no idea what add ons the op has and how they affect tow weight. I was just attempting to show that a 2500 is under what is need to tow what he is wanting to tow.

I firmly believe that the op came here to say look at the rv I am going to tow with my light truck. I am going to do it with this safety hitch.

Then he thought we would all go oooh aaah, that is the greatest thing ever. That did not happen, look at the number of folks that suggested he needed a larger truck.

What I fully expect to happen is he will follow through with his plans as is. Then he will either overload or max out the the capacity of the rv firmly believing that he has all the answers.

See you on the road!

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I'm only hoping he doesn't convince others to follow his lead. My DH wanted to know if the OP would let us all know what roads he will be traveling on an ongoing basis so we can go a different way. Twice we've seen trailers flipped and ripped apart along a roadway. Both times it was obvious that the tow vehicle was way undersized for the trailer. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

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Liked your scenario Hopimakeit, all you need to do is input the correct amount from your suggested ones and you have a rough idea of your situation. Well done.

 

I can not say what motivated BUBearsFan to post his question, all I can do is give him the answers from my years of experience and hope that it helps him, we have been RV'ing since 1982 in all types of trailers, no motor homes. Maybe you need to look into getting a Motorhome Toyhauler and turn your tricked out truck into a toad instead of an anchor.

 

What needs to happen here is that if you are so heavily invested in your truck then the only safe answer for you and the general public is to down size your RV aspirations too those that fit your pulling capacity. As stated in a previous follow-up here, by you, you are only intending to pursue this idea for 2-3 years at least and I have a hard time understanding why you would want to invest in an RV that is around $100 Grand as well as a tow assisting device for I don't know the cost but in the end you may have as much as $150 Grand invested and no way to get a good return on that investment. You have received some very good suggestions here albeit has been a little testy at times when you insist on trying to maneuver around the info and make it happen as if by osmosis.

 

As for the tow assisting device this is not a new concept, they have been using this towing method for years in the cement truck industry and UPS, Postal trucks, and other freightliner companies.

 

As for me I wish you good luck and good fortune in what ever set-up you end up with.

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a tow assisting device for I don't know the cost

 

As for the tow assisting device this is not a new concept, they have been using this towing method for years in the cement truck industry and UPS, Postal trucks, and other freightliner companies.

 

They're around $11K. The manufacturer touts them as a money saver. The claim is you can use a 3/4-ton truck instead of a 1-ton truck to pull a big 5er. The company claims the towing isn't the issue, it is the stopping, and the hitch dramatically helps with the stopping.

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We all know how salesmen are. "You can tow this with that truck." "Don't worry this will handle anything you can load into it." "Flints water is fine." A salesman only makes money if he sells his product.

Tow capacity is still tow capacity it is built in to the truck when the truck is built. If you want to increase horse power, running gear, and frame then you can increase tow capacity but I will bet it would run more than buying a different truck.

Having an extra set of brakes would increase stopping distance.

We have all experienced having a trailer try to pass the truck. It only gets worse on a double tow. You might be able to convince the DMV that it is not legally a double tow but the way it will act it is a double tow.

I prefer the rv over the axle to get rid of the sway instead of propocating it.

For 11 k I could put hydraulic brakes on the rv. I tow an rv weighing in at 19280 with a full water tank. My truck is rated at 30,000 tow capacity. I could get by with 21,000 but I like having the extra capacity. I feel safer and I like feeling that everyone else on the road with me is safer.

See you on the road!

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Remoandiris sorry about that should have been stopping distance would be shortened.

Have read through all of the website for the hitch and have found nothing by the company that claims to increase tow capacity. Nothing official that could be used in court anyway.

They of course have no compunction against posting an article by a journalist that does make a statement about increased tow capacity. I will quote it "The other amazing feature about the hitch system is the ability to increase the towing capacity of tow vehicles by 50 percent. This is primarily due to the increased braking capacity. I do think one would have to use some common sense and consider the capability of the tow vehicle’s engine and transmission. On the other hand, the Toyota Tundra towed the Space Shuttle! RV consultant Bob Zagami said about the Automated Safety Hitch System, “It is not how much you can tow, it is how much you can control and stop that is important!”"

The journalist states a 50 percent increase without attributing this statement to anyone. He very quickly states after that one would have to consider the tow vehicle. Essentially cancelling his previous statement. He then mentions Toyotas famous commercial gimmick of towing the space shuttle on what was a downhill slope.

They also state in the same article that you recieve a letter that I again quote ""the length of devices determined to be necessary for safe and efficient operation should be excluded.”"

Notice that it does not state that it is excluded, it states should be excluded.

If you want to use the safety hitch to increase stopping distance or even improve turning radius I say go for it.

Just be aware that you are not increasing max tow capacity and this maybe controversial as far as length and if not legally a double tow it will act like a double tow. Also you are not guaranteed that an LEO may not stop you and ticket you. It is very hard to keep up with every law.

See you on the road!

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  • 1 month later...

The OP needs a smaller, MUCH lighter trailer or a bigger truck. Period.

Spending any $$$ on the "safe tow" device is throwing good money after bad. What a nightmare that would be to full time in!

Sasha and Laura

SOLD: 1999 Ford F450 7.3 PSD CC 4x2, Roll-A-Long Hauler Bed, 15,000 GVWR, 26,000 GCVWR,

PacBrake PBRX, AIRSAFE 25K Air hitch & KSH 80 Gal Aux Tank/Tool Box Combo

2006 FR Sandpiper Sport F37 Toyhauler, 16K GVWR, 7K axles, 17.5" Wheels, 600W Solar

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