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Loading new smart, and "unloading" our old one


Jim Gell

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Jack, if I remember, you went to a lower height removable chock. Why was that?

 

Jim

Because if you drive on from the passenger side your driver side chocks need to be lower to clear the air dam. The air dam on the 453 is much lower than the 451. The chocks at 3 3/4" height work well and leave room for the lashing winch (assuming you have that style chock). You can cut down the ones you have....any good shop can do that.

 

Roger is correct....a lot of planning has to be done to get it right. One of the issues in using the same hole locations is that the bolt heads end up under the smart tires and you have to jiggle the car around on the deck to get them undone. Not the easiest thing, but not impossible either.

 

We drive on from the passenger side, and now back off on the same side, OR drive off forward (drivers side). On the new truck the bed will have pass-thru ramp storage so you don't have to carry ramps around the truck. The new bed will be QUITE A BIT different than the beds that you have seen to-date.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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After looking around Auto Trader, including the low milage 2015's Heavy Metal pointed out, we think we need to re-access the urgency to buy a new one now.

 

Are the 2016 and 2017's worth more than twice what a used 2015 with under 100 miles is worth?

 

I bought one of the 2015s with 50 miles on it for $8400 and really like it. These cars were ordered by cars2go rental co. like Uber and didn't take delivery. They were in-serviced in 2015 but not delivered so they still have the remaining of the 4 year warranty on them. I checked KKB when I bought mine and it said it was valued at $13,500. It has most of everything I wanted, heated leather seats, navigation, and power windows. I had order and install cruise.

"It is better to have more truck than you need than to need more truck than you have"

2001 Volvo 660, Cummins 400 ISX, Eaton 3 Peddle Auto Shift    
2014 Fuzion 40' Toyhauler
2015 Smart Car                                                                                                                                                                          

                                                                                                            

 

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My assessment is that the choice between a 451 and 453 boils down to how you use it, as much as anything.

 

If you intend to spend much time in the vehicle, and take trips longer than 50 miles or so, then MY opinion is that the 453 has an almost overwhelming attraction. It is a real car, with real comfort and power. And it is very capable in all road conditions, including very heavy cross winds. For longer stints in the car, the 453 is a world of difference.

 

For just running to the grocery store or very short trips the 451 is fine.

 

Just my opinion, having owned both and having taken many 300+ mile runs in them.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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Jack,

 

Where can I find pictures of your chocks and tie down system?

 

Two of my chocks, toward the hitch, are right over the wheels of the truck. The bolts on one side of my bolted down chock go into a 2"x3" tube that runs across the truck under the bed. And there is little room between the deck and the plastic wheel wells on the other side where the chock is bolted right to the 3/16 inch thick deck. On the other side, the removable chocks I have now set over a rectangular bar to keep them aligned, and the strap ratchet mechanism is connected with one carriage bolt head slipped through a key hole in the deck. It holds the chock down as well as secures the wheel with the strap.

 

Will the system you're using work over the trucks wheels? Would I need to reinforce the 3/16" deck?

 

Jim

Volvo+and+Travel+Supreme+400+x+103.jpg

 

2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift

Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it?

'05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel

2016 smart car

 

We started full timing on December 1st 2014

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain
Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien

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Jim,

 

Not Jack but my chocks are bolted to the steel plating. I just drilled a second piece of 3/16" plating about 4"X 4" as a backing plate and bolted it down. No evidence of bending or "wallowing" the bolt holes. I used 3 bolts #8s for each chock because of design.. My feeling is it would be plenty strong since the smart only weighs about 1600 lbs. so each strap is securing about 400 lbs. and the weight is distributed across the bed.

gdaFg3Kl.jpg

 

WCpJQuol.jpg

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Our chocks could be shortened to 3 3/4 inches high.

Volvo+and+Travel+Supreme+400+x+103.jpg

 

2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift

Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it?

'05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel

2016 smart car

 

We started full timing on December 1st 2014

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain
Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien

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Roger, how thick is your deck steel? Like Carl, I have seen nothing to indicate our chocks, or the keyholes that I am strapping to on the ramp side are being stressed.

 

Carl, the chock in your photo looks like it stays bolted down. I would like to get away from that and have 4 removable chocks so I can drive on and off either side. I like doing things right the first time, but that might be a future project. At this time, I don't understand how moveable chocks are being attached to beds and wonder if my truck wheel wells would interfere.

 

With what I know now, which is more than I knew yesterday thanks to all your help, I am thinking that at a minimum I can drive the new smart forward up the driver's side ramps, and back off the same side. This will leave the bolted down chocks where they are on passenger side, only shortened for air dam clearance. I may not even need to shorten the ramp side removable chocks.

Volvo+and+Travel+Supreme+400+x+103.jpg

 

2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift

Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it?

'05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel

2016 smart car

 

We started full timing on December 1st 2014

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain
Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien

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Roger, how thick is your deck steel? Like Carl, I have seen nothing to indicate our chocks, or the keyholes that I am strapping to on the ramp side are being stressed.

 

Carl, the chock in your photo looks like it stays bolted down. I would like to get away from that and have 4 removable chocks so I can drive on and off either side. I like doing things right the first time, but that might be a future project. At this time, I don't understand how moveable chocks are being attached to beds and wonder if my truck wheel wells would interfere.

 

With what I know now, which is more than I knew yesterday thanks to all your help, I am thinking that at a minimum I can drive the new smart forward up the driver's side ramps, and back off the same side. This will leave the bolted down chocks where they are on passenger side, only shortened for air dam clearance. I may not even need to shorten the ramp side removable chocks.

 

Jim,

 

Mine are bolted. I just put a rubber chock on my back wheels and strap them down. I have a short piece of cable that clips to the back straps so if the chocks did work loose I won't lose them. As usual, like you, I do a walk around at every stop and check straps and chocks. Never had an issue so far. I wish it would have worked out you could have made ECR. Would have been a good problem to ponder and hopefully come up with a solution. I think going to Alaska you need a robust solution. Keep us posted.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Jim,

 

Could you use a removable eyebolt in your design to anchor your chocks and then the eye to attach straps? You could use a keyhole and carriage bolts on the bottom to slide the chock into place and then the removable eyebolt to anchor it to the bed. They are available in larger sizes that would be more than adequate for the weight.

http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/ProGrip-Removable-Bed-Bolts/productDetail/Tie-Downs/prod99990133924/cat101260?ref=google?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shoppingfeeds&utm_term=1255458&utm_campaign=GDF&gdffi=956ae87823e94c98adceb63322121bc0&gdfms=2E5D2032145749F4944D8C93C21085C1&gclid=CIH88rKXotICFYw7gQodrUYGPw

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Deck is 3/16 or 1/4". All areas that needed to be thru bolted were built up with another 1/4". Herrin didn't mess around, he did it right. Also both of the deck tie down firms I spoke to were very clear about the need for reinforcement under the deck itself.

The keyhole is a good idea but how do plan to cut the hole? Torch? It would scorch the deck. If you drive on one way the wheels can't sit on the chocks on the opposite side if you plan to drive off from that side. How would you pull the chocks?

 

Mine are similar to Carls in order to push the ratchet out beyond the edge of the truck and still reach reinforced deck.

 

I will measure the air dam on mine tomorrow.

There is a model of new Smarts that has an option for lower suspension. Sport package i think. I decided against it because of the possibility of ripping off underbody parts.

I put a pce of 1/8" angle in the ramp hinge to reduce breakover angle and a pce of 2x6 on flat under the dirt end of the ramps. The air front air dam misses the ground, it may brush the ground without the 2x6.

 

Gotta remember to drop suspension.

 

My passengers side chocks stay put. The back wheels sit on the plate which is welded to the bottom of the old chocks The loading side chocks have oversize slots for the deck bolts. Chocks can move in and out and can be twisted a bit cus the car doesn't always go on straight.

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Ours bolt down on all 4 sides and are interchangeable between them. We also have the new smart with sports suspension (lowered) and don't have a problem with them. Will try to remember to get a pic in the morning to post. They bolt down with two 7/16" grade 8 bolts at each chock

 

The deck was reinforced by Jake at Herrin's shop and then drilled and tapped to bolt the chocks down. It took a bit of messing around but the design we came up with will work for new and old smarts and allow the ramps to utilize the same bolt holes.

2017 Kenworth T680
2015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites
2016 Smart Prime

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Let me see if I can't confuse this issue a bit more. When we bought our truck, it was used and already had an aluminum bed on it. Additionally, it is somewhat narrower than the "normal" bed most folks have. AND, we had no idea that we would ultimately purchase a Smart.

 

So, we have a bed made from thin, soft aluminum material precluding just drilling holes and threading holes wherever they're needed. The underbed boxes use the deck as the top of the box such that adding reinforcing could be done with much contortion, cursing, and significant spending of money. Our Smart is a 2013 Passion Brabus version with airdams and what-all.

 

When all the measuring and ciphering was done, turns out the center of the tire contact patch on both driver and passenger sides is going to be about 1-1/2 inches in from the outside edge of the deck. So the Smart will fit up there, but just barely. No room for chocks without significant mods and significant spending of money. (comes up a lot seems like).

 

However, with 30 years of construction background, most of it around rigging, it occurred to me that most wheeled construction equipment is moved on low-boy or flatbed trailers with no chocks. 99% of the time we used long draw tie-downs (usually connected front to rear at about the span of the axles) rather than wheel baskets with chocks. This eliminates most of the effects of suspension and tire compression/bounce. We use 4 wrap straps 2" wide X 2' long to thread thru the wheel spokes, and 4 ratchet straps 2" X 15' long. Straps are placed driver side wheel to passenger side recessed tie-down, then passenger side wheel to driver side recessed tie-down.

 

We drive up and back down our 14 ft by 1 ft ramps on the passenger side of the truck. Much easier to get into and out of the Smart when its on the deck. I have loaded the car by myself by opening the door and watching the ramp line compared to the door edge. Because we're so close to the edge, we put a temporary piece of 4 X 4 aluminum angle clamped to the driver's side of the deck. That wouldn't hold the car if I tried to jump it off the deck, but it does act as a "feeler" so I know exactly how close to the edge I am. Once there, we take the temporary angle off and sneak forward an inch or so and we're done.

 

Because of how close the tires came to the edge of the deck, we had to modify the ramp to truck connection. First time I put the car on the deck, we used the stock ramps with the extended lip on the truck end. Car was sitting on the ramp lip. We added some horizontal pin eyes on the deck edge and on the ramps and we pin the ramps to the truck when loading or unloading. Works great.

 

The point of all this gibberish is to point out that chocks are not an absolute necessity. There are other ways to do the same thing easily, safely, and without a great deal of expense or damage to your existing bed.

 

Paul

Paul & Paula + Daisy the amazing wiggle worm dog...

2001 Volvo 770 Autoshift, Singled, w/ Aluminum Bed - Toy Draggin

2013 395AMP XLR Thunderbolt Toy Hauler

2013 Smart Passion

2012 CanAm Spyder RT

2013 Harley Davidson Street Glide

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Roger, ours is a 2016 gen 3 (W453) and the "old" that I was talking about is a gen 2 (W451) model. I have not measured a gen 1 (W450). If the wheelbase is different, I can drill and tap new holes and fill the original ones with flush fit Allen set screws.

2017 Kenworth T680
2015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites
2016 Smart Prime

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Dave, the wheelbase is the same. The fronts on the new one (453) are a wider stance than the rear - by about 1.5" (3/4" per side). Very different than the old ones. Basically, you can treat them as "in-line" for chock placement.

 

Roger is correct, on a non-sport-suspension 453 the air dam will scrape the ground coming off. Very slightly in my case, on the Grey Volvo. You want to drive on from the passenger side so you can get out of the car easily. You can back off or you can drive off forward. The back off turns out to be just as easy. Adjust the side mirror down so you can see the ramp/tire at the rear. It really is quite simple, and you do not have to twist around or open the door. Or just drive off as you normally do.

 

Driving up is also simple as long as you have your ramps parallel. I always measure mine to be sure. The 453 has lots of power and you can stop in the middle of the ramps if necessary. It is easiest to just go up under light continuous throttle. You will not be able to see the ramps, so you have to make sure you are lined up correctly - but that is no big deal.

 

As far as chocks, for those retrofitting you need chock height to be under 4". Attachment of chocks to the deck will be installation specific. All decks are a little different. The thing to watch out for is covering the bolt heads with the tire. It can be a little tricky to get it right....not as easy as you would assume.

 

I tried to come up with a better way to attach the chocks to the deck, or to eliminate chocks and use a different tie down system on this generation bed. In the end, I failed. The chocks work out well, and bolting them down turns out to be pretty easy. All other versions of tie down had issues that in the end caused us to go back to the bolt down chocks. Keyholes work well, as long as you don't have storage under them....and on this deck we always do.....so they were not very practical. Chock holes are easier to fill if you must. L Track would work well, but by the time you complete the system it is far more complex than just chocks with some additional holes. But we may add L track to this bed after it is done. I don't have a need of it right now, though.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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Actually my chocks that were not made right worked out great for new Smart. It is a 4 in angle laying down forming 45 degrees. Flat plate welded to bottom with bolt holes. I wanted them with angle up to get 4 inches. I changed the side I remove for driving up. Glad I didn't change other side.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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Driving up is also simple as long as you have your ramps parallel. I always measure mine to be sure. The 453 has lots of power and you can stop in the middle of the ramps if necessary. It is easiest to just go up under light continuous throttle. You will not be able to see the ramps, so you have to make sure you are lined up correctly - but that is no big deal.

 

Jack, can you go into a bit more detail on how you drive up without watching the ramps? Does Danielle give you hand signals, or talk to on radio, phone or headset? Not having done it that way, it sounds precarious.

 

I understand that securing the chocks would vary on bed design. Do I understand that one method is to have a metal plate coming out from the chocks where one can screw bolts down into threaded holes in a reinforced deck area? If they are large enough and deck is reinforced enough, are one bolt on each side of chock adequate?

 

Jim

Volvo+and+Travel+Supreme+400+x+103.jpg

 

2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift

Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it?

'05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel

2016 smart car

 

We started full timing on December 1st 2014

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain
Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien

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Jim, it is pretty simple. LIne up square. Watch your alignment. Get the front on part way and then just power up. Once you start and are aligned if you keep your wheels straight you will go right up without an issue. The ramps are not long enough for you to get out of alignment in their length. Danielle does monitor and will stop me if she sees anything wrong. Believe me, the first time I tried it I was pretty timid with it. But it really turned out to be no issue.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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Glenn....do you have a picture of your chocks?

Just got new phones and no pictures. When I get home they on computer and will post them. Just 4 inch angle iron laying down. Think upside down V. Flat bar on bottom longer than angle iron. Drill holes in flat bar to bolt down.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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In order to reinforce my deck by welding something underneath, I would need to remove the wheels and plastic fenders to get access under the deck. If I take the truck to a welder, he probably can't remove the wheels. If I take it to a truck repair facility who can remove the wheels, they are probably not the best to do the welding. I might have them simply weld plates on the bottom of the deck, then take it to a skilled fabricator to build chocks and attachment system. Any advice?

 

Other than aesthetics, what would the downside be if I welded reinforcement plates on the top of the deck?

 

Jim

Volvo+and+Travel+Supreme+400+x+103.jpg

 

2001 Volvo 770, Detroit 60 Series, Gen 2 Autoshift

Passenger assist elevator to enter cab - for when we need it, or sell it?

'05 Travel Supreme Select 40 RLQSO 5th wheel

2016 smart car

 

We started full timing on December 1st 2014

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness - Mark Twain
Not all that wander are lost - J. R. R. Tolkien

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If you have not heard, Mercedes is discontinuing gasoline SMARTS this year. We were right in the middle of ordering a new build 2017 SMART when we read about the change and the next day it was confirmed by the dealer with whom we were working. That dealer informed us there were no more builds being done and we would have to take whatever they could find that other dealers still had. DW thought it odd that new builds were being stopped so early in the year and right after the announcement so called SMART USA headquarters in the US and was informed that builds HAVE NOT stopped. So we called back our dealer and informed him, whereupon he suddenly found an open bid slot through a guy he knew in San Francisco. We still, however, haven't got a written confirmation of our order. Jack Mayer has a video available on Gregg Shield's website regarding the 2016 SMART; very informative. We actually planned ahead with Gregg and had extra holes drilled for the chocks for the 2016 model.

2010 Volvo VNL 670 D13 500 HP Ishift - "THOR"

2016 DRV Elite Suites 38RSSA - "Freya"

2012 Smart For Two - "Loki"

 

Ron & Shelley Johnston, pilots

Toy, Nika, and Piranha, feline co-pilots and Demi-gods (at least if you ask them).

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