Washington State as a F/Ter Domicile

[wa_desert_rat]

Why would that be? The coach will be licensed in S.D.

If you buy it in SD then that will work fine. Otherwise, you may have some issues. Starting with: how do you convince the seller you are a resident of SD when you have a WA drivers license?

 

WDR

[wa_desert_rat]

 

Well, when I got to her I brightly told her that my good buddy Dave Smith over in Kellog, Idaho gifted this brand new one-ton Diesel Ram Pickup Truck and wasn't he such a nice guy!!! She didn't even smile when she said write the check for $3.468.21 for the Washington sales tax.

 

What a coincidence! Dave Smith, of Kellog, ID, is also one of my best buddies. And they didn't believe me when I told them that he gifted me my pickup, either.

 

WDR

[Phil and Micky]

If you buy it in SD then that will work fine. Otherwise, you may have some issues. Starting with: how do you convince the seller you are a resident of SD when you have a WA drivers license?

 

WDR

I plan to buy the rig in Texas but nonetheless it doesn't matter what state I make the purchase in. No drivers license is required to register a vehicle in S.D. nor is it required for vehicle insurance. The seller is not responsible to license or register the vehicle, the buyer is. Once I have the title I'll send it to my mail service in S.D. and they will take care of the paperwork and then send me the plates. At the same time I'll call the insurance agent and give him the vehicle information and he'll set up the policy for me. I made a couple of calls last week and got this squared away. Since WA State isn't involved in any way then no taxes on the transaction will go to them. Then, this summer I'll make a little trip to S.D. to take care of the driver license issue.

[wa_desert_rat]

If you are a bona fide resident of SD then that might work. But if you have a WA driver's license as your identification and NOT a SD drivers license you might be in for some trouble. Especially if you buy from a dealer (who would be required by law to collect excise tax based on your identification).

 

And in the meantime you'll be driving a vehicle with a registration that does not match your drivers license.

 

WDR

[wa_desert_rat]

Take a look at this .pdf: http://txdmv.gov/publications/doc_download/827-section-7-sales-taxes-and-vehicle-inventory-taxes

 

It clearly states that the dealer is required to collect the sales tax due. Unless TX is far different from other states, they will collect sales tax based on either your identification (drivers license) or the TX sales tax. They have 20 days from the date of sale to turn that money into the state (TX). If they collect it for WA (based on your drivers license) then TX will forward the money to Olympia.

 

How will you convince your dealer that you are a resident of SD?

 

WDR

[Phil and Micky]

Take a look at this .pdf: http://txdmv.gov/publications/doc_download/827-section-7-sales-taxes-and-vehicle-inventory-taxes

 

It clearly states that the dealer is required to collect the sales tax due. Unless TX is far different from other states, they will collect sales tax based on either your identification (drivers license) or the TX sales tax. They have 20 days from the date of sale to turn that money into the state (TX). If they collect it for WA (based on your drivers license) then TX will forward the money to Olympia.

 

How will you convince your dealer that you are a resident of SD?

 

WDR

That's a good question! So, I called the dealer in Texas. Their reply was pretty simple and straight forward... As long as I have a valid driver's license they don't care what state issued it. They are only required to collect sales tax for vehicles registered in Texas. I explained my WA driver's license and the fact that I will register the vehicle in S.D. They don't care what state I register it in after I leave the lot if it isn't Texas. The tax will be collected by the state licensing agency where I register the vehicle.

 

Also, I would direct you to the exemption paragraph in your included document:

 

7.4 Exemption/Resale Certificates.

a. Texas Motor Vehicle Sales Tax Exemption Certificate — For Vehicles Taken Out

of State. If the vehicle is to be transported immediately out of Texas for titling and registration, a

motor vehicle sales tax exemption certificate Form 14-312 may be completed and signed by the

buyer. To be a valid exemption, there must be no use of the vehicle in Texas other than the

immediate transportation of the vehicle out of the state. This certificate should be furnished to

the buyer and retained by the seller. The seller must also send a copy to the Comptroller’s office

and then forward a copy of that correspondence to the purchaser.

 

Nonetheless, it was a good question and I'm glad you asked it. After talking to the dealer I now know there won't be any issues in buying the rig in Texas and having it licensed in my new domicile state of S.D. even though I still possess a WA drivers license.

[wa_desert_rat]

If they say so, then it must be a lot different than buying in nearby states. I just assumed that all states that collect sales tax are communicating back and forth to make sure that they all get paid.

 

I'm still confused about the registration. Doesn't SD want you to have a SD drivers license to register the vehicle in their state?

 

Amazing to me; I've always been under the impression that states were adamant about matching registration, owners, and drivers licenses.

 

 

WDR

[Kirk W]

That's a good question! So, I called the dealer in Texas. Their reply was pretty simple and straight forward... As long as I have a valid driver's license they don't care what state issued it. They are only required to collect sales tax for vehicles registered in Texas. I explained my WA driver's license and the fact that I will register the vehicle in S.D. They don't care what state I register it in after I leave the lot if it isn't Texas. The tax will be collected by the state licensing agency where I register the vehicle.

It used to be that all 50 states had that policy via an agreement among the states that vehicles are to be registered and taxed in the state "where garaged" or kept when not in use. Some years ago a few stated that were budget starved stopped abiding by that agreement, but most states still do. One of the things which this policy solves is the fact that nearly all state require that vehicles that are garaged in them must also be registered in that state. Since some people own second homes or recreational property in more than one state and also keep a vehicle at each of them, this then means that registration and driving license would not always be the same. I don't know of any states that have that sort of requirement. I have never been asked for my driver's license when registering a vehicle in any of the 9 different states in which we have lived/domiciled.

[Phil and Micky]

If they say so, then it must be a lot different than buying in nearby states. I just assumed that all states that collect sales tax are communicating back and forth to make sure that they all get paid.

 

I'm still confused about the registration. Doesn't SD want you to have a SD drivers license to register the vehicle in their state?

 

Amazing to me; I've always been under the impression that states were adamant about matching registration, owners, and drivers licenses.

 

 

WDR

Nope... they don't care. I was certain to ask this question a couple of times in a couple of different ways. I also asked a salesman at an RV show here in WA about registering the RV in S.D. He pretty much told me the same thing. The tax is paid to the state where the RV is registered so if I want it registered in S.D. and their laws let me do it without a S.D. driver's license then so-be-it. I can't imagine the paperwork nightmare that would be created by states having to collect taxes for another state and then transfer the money to them. Holy Nightmare Batman!!

[Phil and Micky]

It used to be that all 50 states had that policy via an agreement among the states that vehicles are to be registered and taxed in the state "where garaged" or kept when not in use. Some years ago a few stated that were budget starved stopped abiding by that agreement, but most states still do. One of the things which this policy solves is the fact that nearly all state require that vehicles that are garaged in them must also be registered in that state. Since some people own second homes or recreational property in more than one state and also keep a vehicle at each of them, this then means that registration and driving license would not always be the same. I don't know of any states that have that sort of requirement. I have never been asked for my driver's license when registering a vehicle in any of the 9 different states in which we have lived/domiciled.

Thanks Kirk! I always look forward to your input!

[wa_desert_rat]

So they no longer bother. That's interesting... and refreshing in a time when you have to show a passport to get back from Canada; identification is not the underlying obsession that I thought it still was.

 

Thanks, Kirk.

 

WDR

[skp51443]

Keep in mind that the other states involved in the purchase process aren't going to be too picky, the selling state could care less, not getting any money either way. The state where you are paying taxes is happy as they got some money. The problem is going to be Washington, where you haven't clearly left as your domicile, that isn't getting a check. If they snag you, you might win the domicile issue either by appealing it administratively or in court or you might not. Washington had some pretty harsh penalties for sales tax issues last time I lived there, if they still do it makes keeping your drivers licence an iffy thing to do.

 

We had friends in a similar situation, flew to SD and spent a night in a hotel while moving everything they could, drivers licence, vehicle registrations, banking, voting, mailing address on everything they could think of to SD. Then they flew home and bought their new RV once all ties to Washington were broken.

 

Never tease the tax man, they can do horrible things with a flick of a pen.

[Phil and Micky]

Keep in mind that the other states involved in the purchase process aren't going to be too picky, the selling state could care less, not getting any money either way. The state where you are paying taxes is happy as they got some money. The problem is going to be Washington, where you haven't clearly left as your domicile, that isn't getting a check. If they snag you, you might win the domicile issue either by appealing it administratively or in court or you might not. Washington had some pretty harsh penalties for sales tax issues last time I lived there, if they still do it makes keeping your drivers licence an iffy thing to do.

 

We had friends in a similar situation, flew to SD and spent a night in a hotel while moving everything they could, drivers licence, vehicle registrations, banking, voting, mailing address on everything they could think of to SD. Then they flew home and bought their new RV once all ties to Washington were broken.

 

Never tease the tax man, they can do horrible things with a flick of a pen.

Stan,

Thanks for the input. We will be renting out our house (furnished) at the same time we buy the RV so we will essentially be homeless. We will still have a vehicle licensed in WA that we will leave here, we will be using it when we come back to visit the kids and g-kids. The plan is to get a S.D. driver's license this summer. From what I've read, and understand, the whole domicile issue comes down to "intent". And, it is our intent to make S.D. our domicile. I will speak with an attorney on this issue tomorrow but I think the WA driver's license is a non-issue. I'm currently working with engineering contractors here in WA who live in CA. They have lived here for many years but yet they still claim their state of domicile to be CA. I'm not sure how they manage to get away with it but personally I think it would cost the state more to try to track down and prosecute all of these people than it's worth (not that they wouldn't or won't)... just sayin'.

 

Also, I know that there are many on this forum who are full timers... how can they possibly claim any state as their domicile when they live everywhere and nowhere at the same time? Certainly they have been able to prove they live in the state where their license is issued, eh?

[wa_desert_rat]

I think a lawyer is a good idea.

 

WDR

[skp51443]

Also, I know that there are many on this forum who are full timers... how can they possibly claim any state as their domicile when they live everywhere and nowhere at the same time? Certainly they have been able to prove they live in the state where their license is issued, eh?

 

As you said domicile is intent but that intent must be demonstrated by your actions, not just claimed. For fulltimers picking a state and claiming it is their intent is the first step, for the next step they must take actions to show that they are backing that statement of intent with concrete changes that back it up. Moving everything possible from the old location to the new location is the best step as anything left behind opens the door for the tax collectors to argue the intent was to evade (not legal) taxes rather than avoid (legal) them. A third step is an ongoing problem, you need to be aware of the rules of the states you spend time in and what they consider "too long to be a visitor" and long enough that you start owing them money.

 

A domicile is a nasty, sticky thing - you can't be without one, there is no process for that. It may be the big cardboard box under the 3rd street bridge, it is always the last place you have established as a domicile by your actions. High tax states tend to be very strict about accepting claims that you have moved and require very careful attention to every detail to avoid challenges.

 

Drivers license, vehicle registrations, insurance, automatic bank deposits, voting, snail mail addresses and the like are critical evidence that you really moved. The automatic bank deposits are a biggie since they generate a report to the state they are sent to, we simply opened a new account in our new state and moved everything coming in to it. We kept our old account (with many grandfathered goodies) in our old state too but made sure it showed us as being SD residents and with an SD address.

[Phil and Micky]

Stan,

Thanks again for the input. I'm not sure how a person without "stuff" moves that "stuff" to another state. If everything a person owns is in their rig then there is no stuff to move, eh?

 

Also, I read recently, somewhere, can't remember where, that the banking issue isn't that big of a deal anymore with the advent of internet banking.

 

Fortunately there are no real issues in WA regarding taxes since there is no income tax here, just a confiscatory sales tax... nonetheless, I'm moving to S.D. and getting out of this modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

Phil

[skp51443]

You are thinking physical stuff like grandma's trunk, that type of thing isn't important to domicile, the non-tangible stuff like licences, registrations, tax addresses, mailing addresses are. You can even keep your old house and everything in it as long as you treat it as vacation property, rental or just storage space for the kids that haven't moved out yet.

 

Banking is less of a problem than it used to be with the exception I mentioned - having income deposited in the old state, that gets the old state a report with your name and a dollar amount that they then can't match to a tax return. Waving a red flag at the tax man versus a few minutes to avoid it, your choice.

 

As you said Washington is mostly a sales tax problem, states with income taxes are much more of an issue.

[Phil and Micky]

Thanks Stan,

It looks like the only real issue then is the driver's license. That and applying for Obama-care when I become impoverished. I'm not quite sure how to deal with that since S.D. wants me to verify that I live in the state at least 6 months out of the year. Strange that S.D. would be one of the few states to require proof of this.

[Newt]

SD is not as friendly for folks not on Medicare.

 

Newt

[Phil and Micky]

SD is not as friendly for folks not on Medicare.

 

Newt

Newt,

Please elaborate.

Phil

[skp51443]

That and applying for Obama-care when I become impoverished. I'm not quite sure how to deal with that since S.D. wants me to verify that I live in the state at least 6 months out of the year. Strange that S.D. would be one of the few states to require proof of this.

 

Makes sense to me, small number of residents, lots of RVers that aren't in the state much and don't contribute to the state's budget. Providing health care is expensive, the feds promise a lot but at least from reading the Arizona press it looks like the state has to pony up a good share of the money. So SD would just as soon not be paying out money for folks that spend most of their time and money elsewhere.

 

Other posters have discussed the SD pre-medicare health care issue, haven't followed it in detail but a search using Google and the site option ( site:rvnetwork.com ) should turn up some posts. I vaguely recall something about one company offering anything and really strict rules on location of care.

[JRP]

"From what I've read, and understand, the whole domicile issue comes down to "intent"."

 

No, intent is just one part of the determination, used mostly when other determining factors are lacking. Where you spend your time and where your personal "connections" are, is just as important as intent. For a true fulltimer, with no home, no job and no connections to any state, then intent becomes a primary factor, since there are no other factors.

However, for someone in your position, still living in Wa, still owning a home in Wa, still driving a Wa registered vehicle, still using a Wa DL; the courts will never even get to intent, since you've given them more than enough to show your true domicile is still Wa state; at least until you take several more steps to break your links to Wa and actually move out of Wa. There is no question you would lose the legal battle over Wa state sales tax under the conditions you describe above, the only question is whether Wa will catch you and file a case.

 

just my opinion

[KodiakJack]

I just followed the below link posted in another thread on Driver's Licenses that describes Washington state "use tax" for vehicles. Unlike Texas where you only pay a $90 new resident fee for a vehicles previously registered in another state in Washington you pay the difference between the sales taxes paid in the old state and Washington state. There was an exception to this use tax but it specifically does not apply to RVs and trucks large enough to haul them. So if you are from a state that has no sales tax, such as Alaska, and decide to move to Washington you might be in for a big surprise.

Later,

J

 

http://dor.wa.gov/Content/GetAFormOrPublication/PublicationBySubject/TaxTopics/OutOfStateVehicles.aspx

[wa_desert_rat]

So if you are from a state that has no sales tax, such as Alaska, and decide to move to Washington you might be in for a big surprise.

 

So I see. I thought there was a time exemption but apparently not. What a stupid rule. I wouldn't move my domicile to WA under these circumstances, either.

 

WDR

[Barbaraok]

And now you understand why we stayed Texans and did not become Washingtonians again. All of our family are in the metro Seattle area and the costs of registering our MH when we started fulltiming were prohibitive.

 

Barb