A first for us (propane)

[chirakawa]

This is interesting. I don't think that I've ever had a propane tank filled that wasn't on a scale. And I RV primarily in the western states and in the Rockies.

 

Putting the tank on a scale is the safe way to fill a portable tank. However, the pump has a meter on it so they can charge by the gallon just as easily.

[SWharton]

I have seen scales but have never been charged by the pound, only by the gal. Once the bleed valve actuates the tank is full. I always thought the scales were a leftover from the days gone by before bleed valves.

[sandsys]

 

Take your "old" tank that is out of date to a Blue Rhino and basicly trade your old tank for a new one. Then you can go where ever to get it filled when it gets empty.

 

Jeff

 

Isn't Blue Rhino the one that uses a proprietary valve that cannot be filled by other dealers?

 

Linda Sand

[Chalkie]

 

Isn't Blue Rhino the one that uses a proprietary valve that cannot be filled by other dealers?

 

Linda Sand

 

Maybe way back when, Blue Rhino had a proprietary valve but they do not any more. I have had many of their tanks over the years and exchanged them at other propane exchanges, or just peeled the label off and taken them to an Ace Hardware or someplace else that refills propane.

 

In fact, I just went out and looked at the two 20# bottles I have for powering our gas fire pit, one is Blue Rhino and one is Amerigas. Outwardly, the valves look the same.

[gjhunter01]

My brother was part owner of a propane Co in N. Houston area. We charged a flat fee per size of portable tank as 98% of customers would only fill the bottles when empty. It also speeded up the process as the customer could drop off the bottle, go pay in the office and by the time he came out the bottle was filled. MH tanks were charged by the gallon using a meter same as on a gas pump. Texas Rail Road Commission required we use a scale, the OPD bottles had a inside float that would shut off the gas flow when 80% fill was reached, but in the event of a float failure, the scale was supposed to be the primary fill tool. The RRC did audits to monitor scales were being used or you could be fined and shut down. I don't know of anyone that had a 30 lb tank exchange program. Also, a company had to be certified to recertified tanks, but were allowed to set their own fees.

Greg

[Bill Joyce]

When we set up my mother-in-law with a Stay-A-Whlle/Extend-A-Stay a year ago in Southern California, the BlueRhino and Amerigas prices were much higher than buying a tank at Home Depot (or Costco in season) and filling it up. The 20lb tanks were $27 at Home Depot and a fill was $11 at the 76 station, while the cheapest filled tank was $47. A tank trade was $18 to $21, so $11 to fill was a bargain.

[Hot Rod]

Wow, lots of bad and anecdotal information out there. I worked for our family propane business for many years, as well as AmeriGas for many years after the family sold out, so this is my wheelhouse. Kirk has it 99% right on the money, only thing off on his comments is that ASME (permanently mounted) tanks are filled to 85% capacity, where the bleeder is set to spit liquid, the 80% figure is correct for DOT (removable) cylinders. You sound like you have some experience in the business as well.

 

Propane in DOT (removable, portable) cylinders can be sold by the pound or by the gallon, at the discretion of the dealer, or in some cases may be regulated by the relevant government agency. There is certainly nothing wrong with using the scale to confirm the tank is filled to the correct safe weight, and billing the customer by the gallon for the exact amount used. The conversion is 4.24 pounds per gallon, so a 20# cylinder holds about 4.71 gallons when filled to it's rated 80% capacity. For safety reasons they should always fill on a scale to be sure the tank is only filled to the rated 80% capacity. Filling with a bleeder is convenient and fairly common, but in my experience filling probably 100's of thousands of tanks, the little tube that drops down in the tank to the 80% level can become broken off or unthreaded and fall into the tank, meaning the bleeder won't spit until the tank reaches 100% full. The same is true of places that fill by the autostop valve only and do not open the bleeder and rely totally on that for the tank to shut off at the appropriate level. Those can also fail and allow the tank to fill all the way up. While those failures are rare, overfilled (past 80%) tanks are very unsafe and can have catastrophic consequences, so I don't like taking that chance.

 

Propane in a permanently mounted tank is always metered by the gallon.

 

We ran into the issue of a "flat fee" way back in the day, when the Ohio division of weights and measures got into the act and came up with a bunch of complicated rules in response to letters from a single customer of a single dealer (the way it usually works with government). The rules on that will vary from state to state based on local regulation, but it comes down to they are required to charge you for the exact amount of propane you get, except some states allow for a minimum charge or flat fee for a certain tank size. That is legal as long as they advertise that fact accurately. The minimum fill pricing comes into play due to the labor intensive nature of filling a propane tank, as opposed to something like self serve gasoline, where below a certain minimum amount it literally costs more to send the employee out to fill the tank than you make on it. If a customer wants to waste their time buying gasoline one gallon at the time, that is their problem, if a customer wants to buy propane one gallon at a time, the dealer has to pay the employee more to go out there and pump the one gallon, do required safety checks, etc., than they will make on the gallon.

 

So just do as suggested, only fill empty tanks, or know the policy beforehand and give your business to the dealer that will bill you accurately. And don't be afraid to ask at the counter. If you are topping off your tanks before a trip, say one is empty and one only needs a little, I can't imagine any reasonable dealer charging for two full "flat fees" if you ask first and present it that way.

[Hot Rod]

DOT portable cylinders are required to be re-inspected 12 years from the date of manufacture, and then every 5 (or 7) years thereafter. The 5 year certification is a visual inspection for rust and/or physical damage as well as leak test, and stamping a new date on the tank. Any propane dealer (like an AmeriGas, not the corner gas station) can perform this in a few minutes typically for a small fee, as can any welding supply that refills tanks. The 7 year test is a hydrostatic test like they use for welding tanks, and is a waste of money vs. the price of a propane tank. I think you will find the cost to recertify your cylinder at your local welding supply will be far less than the cost of an exchange tank. And there is no guarantee that an exchange tank will be new or recently certified, they can fill and sell an exchange cylinder right up until prior to the day it expires, so don't assume you are getting 12 more years with an exchange. And as another poster mentioned, in the case of 20# cylinder Home Depot, Menards, Sams Club and the like often sell those so cheap you might as well buy a nice new shiny one.

[Mr&Mrs Duet]

Got scammed by the flat fee one time many hears ago, since then, I only pay for what gets put in the tank.

[chirakawa]

Got scammed by the flat fee one time many hears ago, since then, I only pay for what gets put in the tank.

 

I'd like to hear your explanation of how it is a scam. What difference does it make if you pay a flat fee of $18 or pay $3 per gallon for six gallons (rounded off numbers). It all boils down to the bottom line. If you think the price is too high, then you have the option to go elsewhere. At least you know the total price before they pump the gas.

 

You don't have to be a math wizard to figure the price per gallon when you pay a flat fee. As others have stated, the flat fee approach is done to simplify the process, both for the vendor and the customer.

[Kirk W]

You don't have to be a math wizard to figure the price per gallon when you pay a flat fee. As others have stated, the flat fee approach is done to simplify the process, both for the vendor and the customer.

I think what some feel is a scam is the fact that you pay the same whether the tank is completely empty or if it is only partially used and you want to top it off before a trip. I kind of agree with that view. Their argument is that they make too little to be worth the employee's time if the bottle is only partially empty and they charge by the gallon.

 

In Van, TX there are two places that will fill your bottles, Love's who simply charge by the gallon and Hillard's Hardware who charge a flat fee. Love's has the higher price/gallon, but Hillard's is lower if the tank is completely empty. The bulk dealer who delivers to homes in our community has the lowest price of all, but while he will fill a motorhome if already here, he don't carry a scale and so can't fill the portable tanks, under TX law. They won't make a trip out for a motorhome either because of the tank size (most home tanks are 100 gallon, with a few like mine that hold 200 gallons), but will fill them if already on site. Van also has a store with the bottle exchange (empty for full) and with a per gallon basis it costs the most per gallon of all.

[chirakawa]

I think what some feel is a scam is the fact that you pay the same whether the tank is completely empty or if it is only partially used and you want to top it off before a trip. I kind of agree with that view. Their argument is that they make too little to be worth the employee's time if the bottle is only partially empty and they charge by the gallon.

 

In Van, TX there are two places that will fill your bottles, Love's who simply charge by the gallon and Hillard's Hardware who charge a flat fee. Love's has the higher price/gallon, but Hillard's is lower if the tank is completely empty. The bulk dealer who delivers to homes in our community has the lowest price of all, but while he will fill a motorhome if already here, he don't carry a scale and so can't fill the portable tanks, under TX law. They won't make a trip out for a motorhome either because of the tank size (most home tanks are 100 gallon, with a few like mine that hold 200 gallons), but will fill them if already on site. Van also has a store with the bottle exchange (empty for full) and with a per gallon basis it costs the most per gallon of all.

 

I agree that one method of charging may not favor an individual compared to another method. However, to suggest that it is a scam indicates that there is a scammer and there is a victim. Sorry, but in this case, if you are a victim of paying more than you had to because you didn't pay attention to what you were doing.............it's your fault, not the vendor's.

 

Just because a business does something different from how you would do it doesn't make it a scam. There are plenty of legitimate scams in the world, this isn't one of them. Take a little personal responsibility.

[bigjim]

I have never been anywhere that did not have a scale and a meter. I have been a few places that had a flat minimum fee for a fill. It takes almost as much time and labor to fill a 20# , 30#, or 40# so even though I may not like it, I sort of understand it. One place I have gone waves the price per tank after a certain minimum of gallons. Thus if I take 2 30# pounders empty at the same time I will end up paying by the gallon instead of the flat fee for one.