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Where will healthcare go in the near future?


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I agree, why should the rest of us pay the only income tax and pay for the wealthy?

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Again it appears this is only a polarized, not researched and arrived at. I invite all to check into the rules in Canada where an immigrant is fully vested in the health program there within 3 months. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/after-health.asp

 

Germany offers free college for all. But when they say all, they mean all, INCLUDING FOREIGNERS:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/10/10/germany_college_is_free_there_even_for_foreign_students_why.html

 

Let's make America great again, we can beat Germany and Canada right?

 

Anyway, health care is being worked on here as we speak. Let's get it right this time. Write your representatives. I do. Research today is easy.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Most "experts" agree that if you redistribute wealth but leave the marketplace free, it isn't very long before the wealth has returned to the same group that had it before.

References?

 

Having spent a lot of volunteer time working with programs for the low income family, I have learned that financial well-being is more a factor of money management than of income amount.

While personal experience can be valuable, it can also be misleading (e.g., the black guy I sat next to had body odor, so all black people must have BO. I heard someone actually say this).

 

 

The majority of the financial burden of any plan must be placed on the working people because there are just not enough wealthy people to carry the burden alone.

Given the current state of wealth inequality, I think the converse is true:

 

The majority of the financial burden of any plan must be placed on the wealthy because there are just not enough working people to carry the burden alone.

 

And if we make the wealthy carry the burden, who then gets to determine at what income lever you are wealthy? To the welfare mother, most everyone in this thread is wealthy.

 

Whatever is created, we must all expect to pay our part of it.

Who is wealthy? Given the facts, I think even the welfare mother could figure it out.

 

 

What seems to bother folks most about any "Robin Hood" plan is that rewards from any redistribution will be reaped by the "undeserving" -- cheats, slackers, welfare queens, etc. (Handouts to the wealthy are seldom mentioned.)

 

Anyway, there are other ways to distribute wealth besides handouts. For example, "social transfers" -- wealth spent to improve public healthcare, education, transportation, infrastructure, etc. Money spent to raise the tide for all boats.

 

SKP #79313 / Full-Timing / 2001 National RV Sea View / 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
www.rvSeniorMoments.com
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Zulu,

Good reminder. I forgot to include the source link to Kindergeld for Germany or the Children's allowance in that earlier post so I did add it there and here it is for any that missed that edit: http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/kindergeld.html

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Who is wealthy? Given the facts, I think even the welfare mother could figure it out.

IF it is so easy, why not share the knowledge with us? How much money is your definition of wealthy? Is it an amount of annual income, and if so, how much? Is there some amount of savings, & how much? I'm just wondering as most people consider anyone who has much more than they, as wealthy. That welfare mother might just put you into the wealthy group. I don't know how many welfare mothers you know but my sister was one and at present I know several of them through our volunteer work.

 

What would happen if we re-distributed the world's 1%'s wealth back to the 99%?

 

In short - chances are that even if we are able to re-distribute wealth at the world scale, inequality will return given time, unless redistribution continues indefinitely. And if so, people being equally poor is likely the result.

The Cost of Redistributing Wealth

Modern empirical techniques have allowed economists to get a better idea of how big the leaks are in the bucket. For example, a recent paper by Nathaniel Hendren looks at the earned income tax credit, food stamps and housing vouchers. He finds that for every dollar redistributed from rich to poor with those programs, anywhere from 34 cents to 56 cents leaks out and is lost.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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IF it is so easy, why not share the knowledge with us?

You're right. It would be hard. Though I haven't created any tax tables yet, I think it's still worth pursuing. We already tax the "wealthy" -- I'm just saying we should tax them even more.

 

I don't know how many welfare mothers you know but my sister was one and at present I know several of them through our volunteer work.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

 

Bad source. It's just a post on a blog by Hubert Gertis, a guy from Berlin, who describes himself as a "media hacker. entrepreneur. up to something". Maybe he's a brilliant economist, but we don't know.

 

 

Pretty good source which describes Arthur Okun's "leaky bucket" principle (i.e., wealth distribution has some built-in inefficiencies).

 

However, consider that Okun wrote his book in 1975 when wealth inequality was nowhere close to what it is now:

 

income_distribution_over_time.jpg

 

 

 

SKP #79313 / Full-Timing / 2001 National RV Sea View / 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
www.rvSeniorMoments.com
DISH TV for RVs

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I agree with Zulu, even Adam Smith knew the forces of capitalism needed to be restrained and managed for long term success and a moral society. Inequality is off the charts, not in my opinion, but as clearly established in data.

 

Anyway, this is an interesting read on John Boehner's comments this week where he sees the ACA going. Too bad we have to wait for them to be out of office for frank and honest assessments. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/john-boehner-obamacare-republicans-235303

Dave and Lana Hasper

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I wonder why it is 'OK' to go after the evil 1%'er's

 

As a group, I don't think the 1%ers are any more "evil" than the rest of the population. In this case, Smitty, it is about the money.

 

Slippery slope? By and large we already have tax system whose taxes increase with income.

 

The amount of total wealth controlled by the Top 1% is so great that it has become a difference of kind, not of degree. In 2014, the Top 1% in the US controlled about 40% of this country's wealth.

 

Smitty, for you and others who think that taxing the bejeezus out of the Top 1% is some kind if Third Rail, is there any limit to the wealth that the Top 1% could control? How about 50% of the country's wealth? 60%? 80%? ???

 

As far as your analogies . . .

  • Diesel Pusher owners = Top 1%
  • Purple Pants = health care

. . . at first blush "charming", but actually just absurd.

 

Finally, Smitty, what's with your use of "heck", "gee", "dang it"? Are you channeling Eddie Haskell?

SKP #79313 / Full-Timing / 2001 National RV Sea View / 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
www.rvSeniorMoments.com
DISH TV for RVs

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It is interesting how this conversation has evolved from what to do about healthcare and health insurance once Obamacare is ended to deporting illegal aliens and income inequality, and virtually nothing about reducing the cost of healthcare, and therefore health insurance. If nothing is done about the cost of healthcare, it will become increasingly more costly for everyone, and as costs go up, fewer and fewer people will be able to afford it. That is what needs to be addressed. Hopefully, the number of people on here who would deny healthcare to anyone just because they can not afford it is a small number.

2005 Winnebago Voyage 38J

 

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Yes, you are right of course Paul. I did read today two articles I will post later about the details of the house health proposal as submitted to the Governor's association. Gov Kasich was extremely critical. The upshot for us is that subsidies are lowered and the rates will be increased specifically for the 50- 64 age group. This of course is just the House proposal but the preliminary analysis has been very negative as it relates both to cost and coverage.

Dave and Lana Hasper

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I've deleted my post in this thread and will no longer respond. It has turned purely political, with facts not counting. I would suggest that we get back on things related to the RV lifestyle. I'll not be participating, however.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
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Jack when you say things "with facts not counting" you are indirectly calling others liars. I not only provided a link to support my post but am prepared to extensively back up every statement I made in response to your post. I have now deleted my post because it responded to your deleted post.

 

I do need to point out though Jack that you are a moderator and your post had absolutely do nothing to do with healthcare. I am on this thread because I am under 65 and looking for a healthcare solution. That is the sole reason I follow this thread. You stopped by and made a comment on immigration and then left in a huff telling others they needed to focus solely on healthcare. I am all for focusing on health insurance but when moderators stop by and make off topic comments on a highly inflammatory non related subject, they need to be corrected and called out just like anyone else.

Dave and Lana Hasper

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This paragraph from today's Washington Post explains why it is impossible to predict what is going to happen:

 

Over the next 45 minutes, according to Kasich and others briefed on the session, the governor made his pitch while the president eagerly called in several top aides and then got Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price on the phone. At one point, senior adviser Jared Kushner reminded his father-in-law that House Republicans are sketching out a different approach to providing access to coverage. “Well, I like this better,” Trump replied, according to a Kasich adviser.

Dave and Lana Hasper

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Actually, Dave, I responded to a post that was profiling people. Since it was off topic and not factual I deleted my post. As did you.

 

As to healthcare before 65, I totally agree with you that it is an issue. Before last summer it was the largest expenditure we had, and also the riskiest, since I had little coverage under the available plans. Finding what i considered reasonable and affordable coverage was a big issue. Spending $800+ a month for a $6800 deductible policy for one person was not what I considered a viable solution. I'm just glad I am now "old". It does not help others, though, and I do hope the Congress - on both sides - finds a solution that works for everyone.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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As a group, I don't think the 1%ers are any more "evil" than the rest of the population. In this case, Smitty, it is about the money.

 

Slippery slope? By and large we already have tax system whose taxes increase with income.

 

The amount of total wealth controlled by the Top 1% is so great that it has become a difference of kind, not of degree. In 2014, the Top 1% in the US controlled about 40% of this country's wealth.

 

Smitty, for you and others who think that taxing the bejeezus out of the Top 1% is some kind if Third Rail, is there any limit to the wealth that the Top 1% could control? How about 50% of the country's wealth? 60%? 80%? ???

 

As far as your analogies . . .

  • Diesel Pusher owners = Top 1%
  • Purple Pants = health care

. . . at first blush "charming", but actually just absurd.

 

Finally, Smitty, what's with your use of "heck", "gee", "dang it"? Are you channeling Eddie Haskell?

 

 

 

I do not believe we should single out any group that live their financial live's legally. I also feel you do an outstanding job of sharing your views. You have provided great help to many here, and on other boards, on providing well thought out and documented information on Health Care. I've thanked you for this before, and continue to do so.

 

I do feel my overage exaggeration of DP owners and purple pant's wearing groups - did what I wanted it to do. Caution us to not single out groups because they are different then us. It is not illegal for Buffet/Gates/Etc. to have lots of money and been 1%'er's.

 

I use a different way to communicate and try to get my thoughts across. Sometimes I do, sometimes I fail:)! But, it's also OK for me to use this approach vs your's where you provide great detail to support your posts. OK for you to take this approach to. As I've read just this one thread again, I see where you try to educate anyone that has a different perspective then you. And any post, say the Forbes Article, that also does not match your viewpoint - you come up with a reason to undermine. In come cases providing sources that you feel are more accurate, and that backs your viewpoints. (And I'm OK with this. As I filter the style of a poster, and have no problem reading their input and check their sources of information - then make my own conclusions. Which again, may differ from your's, and other posters too...)

 

It is also fine for other posters to not want to read my long winded posts, or not agree with them too:)!

 

I still want changes to Health Care, shared some of my thoughts in post #81. I still send my emails to representatives of how I want them to represent me. I still read threads like this, as I like to see different perspectives.

 

Now please excuse me, apparently I need to read up on Dobbie Gillis to alter my approach to life to be less Eddie Haskel:)!

 

All kidding aside. Thanks for your posts, and hope you agree that it is OK for me to not believe the 1%'er's are the problem, or the solution. My opinion.

 

Best to you, and all,

Smitty

Be safe, have fun,

Smitty

04 CC Allure "RooII" - Our "E" ride for life!

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I still want changes to Health Care, ............................... I still send my emails to representatives of how I want them to represent me. I still read threads like this, as I like to see different perspectives. .........................................

 

Thanks for your posts, and hope you agree that it is OK for me to not believe the 1%'er's are the problem, or the solution. My opinion.

My thoughts too. I read most of what gets posted, but choose not to respond to what strikes me as too near to political or argumentative. Neither are likely to change any minds anyhow. It is always interesting to see what others think should be, whether I happen to agree or not. We don't learn much if we only read or listen to those who think the same.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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My thoughts too. I read most of what gets posted, but choose not to respond to what strikes me as too near to political or argumentative. Neither are likely to change any minds anyhow. It is always interesting to see what others think should be, whether I happen to agree or not. We don't learn much if we only read or listen to those who think the same.

 

I agree, and greatly appreciate hearing from everyone here.

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A little poke at myself, and I sure don't mind doing this...

 

My beautiful DW, immediately commented that I do sort of remind her of Dobie Gillis's Maynard from time to time. I said now dear, I'm sure everyone else would consider me "The Thinker" (And wish I was a statute that cold not talk/type!)... But that just set her up for another quick jab, good naturally of course, as she said 'That's why I suggest you close the bathroom door during your AM constitutional - as you do strike a similar pose!'.

 

dobie gillis the thinker

 

Love this woman, as she keeps me honest, humble - and thank goodness for bad eyesight - she thinks I'm handsome too:)!

 

That's my story, and sticking to it!!

Smitty

 

(Oh yes. Should have ID'd this post as Off Topic:)!)

Be safe, have fun,

Smitty

04 CC Allure "RooII" - Our "E" ride for life!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Back to the original topic . . .

According to the NY Times, the new Obamacare replacement winners/losers:

"The biggest losers under the change would be older Americans with low incomes who live in high-cost areas. Those are the people who benefited most from Obamacare. For some people, the new tax credit system will be more generous. The winners are likely to be younger, earn higher incomes and live in areas where the cost of health insurance is low."

In general, the older and poorer you are, the less of a tax credit you'll get.
 

 

 

 

SKP #79313 / Full-Timing / 2001 National RV Sea View / 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
www.rvSeniorMoments.com
DISH TV for RVs

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AARP is saying that 50-64 age group could see an out of pocket increase of around $8,000.00.    

Under current proposal this change would not hit until 2020 although I understand they are trying to pick up freedom caucus supporters by proposing 2018 implementation. 

This Kaiser article has a calculator to let you know specifically how you will be hit depending on your age and domicile. It is more optimistic than AARP but still ugly. http://kff.org/interactive/tax-credits-under-the-affordable-care-act-vs-replacement-proposal-interactive-map/

 

Dave and Lana Hasper

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Sen Bob Casey just  said that In Adam Co Pa, the new proposal would increase cost to 50-64 year olds by $11,000.00.     

Everyone is making predictions without the benefit of CBO scoring. It seems insane to push this so fast without numbers telling you what may happen. Like Driving with your  eyes closed.

Dave and Lana Hasper

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