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Insurance Update - sharing info


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Have been searching for possible replacements for Blue Sky since they may or may not be continuing to offer RV insurance. I am not rehashing the two ongoing threads but thought I'd share some things I've learned.

1. Going through a recognized agent may get you coverage when "on line" applications may say they don't cover HDTs. My example Miller Insurance can get me covered through Good Sam (National General) when Good Sams online and phone said they didn't cover HDTs.

2. Premium costs vary by hundreds $$ depending on companies for the same coverage.

3. Most important to us, almost all policies are "cash value" which is depreciated value vs. "agreed value" where a fixed amount is paid. I have queried all the agents I'm dealing with and it seems there is no "source" like NADA, Kelly, or other entity that will value our trucks other than what they would be as an OTR tractor. It's up to us to prove greater value by receipts or a certified appraisal. I'm thinking getting a certified appraiser at one of the rallies to do multiple appraisals might be cheaper and serve us better in event of an accident.

Thoughts?

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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We would do an appraisal but can't make the ECR this year. Might this be something for the National? I know that a 1998 Volvo 610 is worth about $3000. But one with no dents, 500k miles, hauler bed, air hitch, custom accessories should be more.

Alie & Jim + 8 paws

2017 DRV Memphis 

BART- 1998 Volvo 610

Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins

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We would do an appraisal but can't make the ECR this year. Might this be something for the National? I know that a 1998 Volvo 610 is worth about $3000. But one with no dents, 500k miles, hauler bed, air hitch, custom accessories should be more.

 

I was surprised too. My 2006 780 with 525,000 miles is not worth much either. Selling it with bed, ET, etc. is basically what someone is willing to pay but I'm not planning on selling soon. I just want a fair price from my insurance carrier if I'm in an accident and they choose to total. Might talk to Steve and Gail about arranging something at the National if enough folks interested or at ECR if possible and enough interest.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Howdy!

 

I've been using USAA for insurance. At the Escapade last year I met Chris and Charles Yust. They gave me a quote that bet my previous insurance by $1,800.00 a year with same coverage. Needless to say I went with them National General. If you want give them a call 936-425-5041. Hope it helps.

 

"Happy Trails"

Chiefneon

"Class of 2007 Fulltimer's"

Gary & karen

Smoochie & Michaela (fur babies)

2018 Chevorlet 3500 HD/LTZ 2L Custom Hauler

2014 Heartland Cyclone 4000

2016 Smart Car Prime

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I would guess that most of us have a "perceived" value on our trucks that probably wouldn't align very well with what an insurer would be willing to pay in the event of a total loss. Not being in the insurance business I can only guess how they might come up with their figures.

While an independent appraiser might get you in the ballpark it still comes down to you & the insurance adjuster.

I believe the most important part of the debate would come down to documentation. That would include all of the extras that have been added to the truck. th adjuster should have the truck value, what they won't have is all of the add-ons & that's where the documentation comes in to play.

As stated earlier, a "98 might be valued at $3-5,000 in some markets or to the insurer. Now consider the inverter, batteries, sound systems, WIFI & phone, tires, bed & all the other upgrades.

If it gets "totaled" you will find that unless you have some kind of documentation for all of the nice things that were in that burnt up truck, you are in for a fight with an adjuster that is very difficult for you to win.

At our recent household auction I was reminded several times that the perceived value of an item doesn't always align with what another person is willing to pay.

Enjoy your trucks, keep them upgraded and running. Cross your fingers that you won't get wrecked. When it comes time to sell, be thankful for the time you were able to spend with it

I've had a sizeable household insurance claim that gives me a little insight into the adjuster/insured relationship. Pictures, documentation and availability to obtain similar replacement items are your friend.

My $.02 worth.

 

Todd

“…nothing so liberalizes a man and expands the kindly instincts that nature put in him as travel and contact with many kinds of people.” – Mark Twain

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Todd,

Part of the interest in appraisals is in getting agreed value insurance--where you've agreed up front what it's worth in a total loss. Even with a cash value policy, the appraisal establishes an independently assessed value that can be used to plead your case.

 

It's also worth paying attention to limitations on custom equipment, as many policies put a pretty low limit on anything not originally there by default.

45' 2004 Showhauler -- VNL300, ISX, FreedomLine -- RVnerds.com -- where I've started to write about what I'm up to

Headlight and Fog Light Upgrades http://deepspacelighting.com

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Todd,

 

I agree totally. I save all my receipts in a folder and shame on me, I have kept them in the truck. Time for some copies on disc to be stored at home or safe deposit box. We video tape every room in our house every couple of years and hone in on valuable items, jewelry, musical instruments, antiques with serial numbers if available to back up any homeowners claim. Gonna do that with the truck and trailer. Not trying to be paranoid but look at the recent experiences of The Old Sailor and HeroMaker and their trailer damage and it is a fight to get equity.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Hi Carl,

 

I would be interested in an appraisal of my truck at this years ECR. Right now I do not know if I can make it to the nationals. The biggest thing would be to make the idea of an appraisal easy on you. If the idea of an appraisal can work I'm all in for it. I can understand that the time line for the ECR is moving quickly and time is not your friend right now.

 

Thank you for all of your hard work on the ECR's.

Al

2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger "
  Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood "
    2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog "
 

 

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Hi Carl,

 

I would be interested in an appraisal of my truck at this years ECR. Right now I do not know if I can make it to the nationals. The biggest thing would be to make the idea of an appraisal easy on you. If the idea of an appraisal can work I'm all in for it. I can understand that the time line for the ECR is moving quickly and time is not your friend right now.

 

Thank you for all of your hard work on the ECR's.

Al

Already working on it Al. May not be practical or may be cost prohibitive but we'll see. Will keep you updated.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Count us in for an appraisal - DW says make sure to get a stand alone appraisal on me also, not sure what that's for....

Paul & Paula + Daisy the amazing wiggle worm dog...

2001 Volvo 770 Autoshift, Singled, w/ Aluminum Bed - Toy Draggin

2013 395AMP XLR Thunderbolt Toy Hauler

2013 Smart Passion

2012 CanAm Spyder RT

2013 Harley Davidson Street Glide

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Count us in for an appraisal - DW says make sure to get a stand alone appraisal on me also, not sure what that's for....

So she knows if she can get any trade in on two 30 year olds.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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I might be wrong but my understanding is insurance companies have an obligation to replace your totaled vehicle with one of like kind,age etc. When it is not totaled is when it can get dicey. This is why a accurate stated cash value vs replacement cost should be close.

2002 Beaver Marquis Emerald   C-12 Cat 505 HP

2014 Volvo 630 D-13 I Shift SOLD

2017 New Horizons SOLD

 

 

 

 

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I might be wrong but my understanding is insurance companies have an obligation to replace your totaled vehicle with one of like kind,age etc. When it is not totaled is when it can get dicey. This is why a accurate stated cash value vs replacement cost should be close.

I do not disagree but it is how they come up with the replacement value that is in question. As I stated above there is no recognized source (NADA, Kelly, etc,) that can give a realistic value for our trucks with mods. It then becomes our responsibility to "prove our valuation". Again review what happened to HeroMaker and Old Sailor which detailed their experiences with their 5ers on this forum. They had to jump through hoops to get an equitable value especially HeroMaker since his was not an "ordinary" Teton. Closely questioning several agents while getting quotes proved to me the insurance company is going to pay as little as possible and they advised keeping all receipts Etc. to prove added value. In my opinion an appraisal from a certified RV appraiser with experience in our conversions would be a good addition to my proof.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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I establish a value through receipts. I've had no problem with this on my trucks, since 2003.Simply give them a copy and establish the truck's value with that. As you add stuff, update it from time-to-time. Of course, if you provide the labor you won't get true value that way, but it is better than nothing. IF you do a LOT of renovations yourself, it would be wise to get an appraisal from an independent appraiser. Just make SURE that appraiser is approved by your insurance company before you do it. Not all appraisals will be honored.

 

Once I get the policy updated I ask for anew copy of it to be sure that the value is correct. I've never had an issue getting them to update this.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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I establish a value through receipts. I've had no problem with this on my trucks, since 2003.Simply give them a copy and establish the truck's value with that. As you add stuff, update it from time-to-time. Of course, if you provide the labor you won't get true value that way, but it is better than nothing. IF you do a LOT of renovations yourself, it would be wise to get an appraisal from an independent appraiser. Just make SURE that appraiser is approved by your insurance company before you do it. Not all appraisals will be honored.

 

Once I get the policy updated I ask for anew copy of it to be sure that the value is correct. I've never had an issue getting them to update this.

Do you have an agreed value policy or cash value? Agreed value should be no issue but the insurance company determines the initial cash value offering and that's where I'm having an issue.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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The timing of this discussion catches me at an interesting time. I've been in the process of helping my parents deal with a total loss claim on a vehicle that they had just purchased (car hauler flipped truck). I got frustrated enough with errors and sloppy work by the "pros" that I spent the money to get a copy of the standards and procedures that everyone kept trying to hide behind. Well, after a few hundred bucks for a few PDFs, I decided to go ahead and get certified. The certification doesn't help my parents, but can help here. Their experience, which included comparable vehicles showing different feature configurations even though the car had exactly one item on the options list, incorrectly entered numbers, and a methodology that was far too simplistic to be reflective of what the car was really worth, was far from pleasant. I was also changing insurers myself, and found that I'd be hiring an appraiser that wouldn't know the difference between a Showhauler and a diesel pusher.

 

So there will be a certified appraiser at the rally, details still to be figured out. But you can be sure there will be no confusion between a retired tractor and an RV hauler.

 

3. Most important to us, almost all policies are "cash value" which is depreciated value vs. "agreed value" where a fixed amount is paid. I have queried all the agents I'm dealing with and it seems there is no "source" like NADA, Kelly, or other entity that will value our trucks other than what they would be as an OTR tractor. It's up to us to prove greater value by receipts or a certified appraisal. I'm thinking getting a certified appraiser at one of the rallies to do multiple appraisals might be cheaper and serve us better in event of an accident.

Thoughts?

Even with an ACV policy, there will still be a rating basis on vehicles like these. Policies are generally worded such that it pays ACV or rating basis, whichever is less. Sometimes it's not obvious either. But a good rate may not be so good if the basis is too low. If the basis is too much higher than the "book" value that is associated with your VIN, the insurer may want an appraisal or send out their own inspector to support that number. In my case, Progressive sent their own inspector. There was a character limit about the same as a tweet, and he had to ask how many cylinders were under the hood...

 

 

I would guess that most of us have a "perceived" value on our trucks that probably wouldn't align very well with what an insurer would be willing to pay in the event of a total loss. Not being in the insurance business I can only guess how they might come up with their figures.

While an independent appraiser might get you in the ballpark it still comes down to you & the insurance adjuster.

I believe the most important part of the debate would come down to documentation. That would include all of the extras that have been added to the truck. th adjuster should have the truck value, what they won't have is all of the add-ons & that's where the documentation comes in to play.

You're absolutely right here. The appraisal now serves one of two purposes: getting a proper policy written, and/or establishing a starting point in establishing value in a claim. Your policy should have a provision that allows you demand an appraisal, where you hire your own, they hire one, and they hire a referee if the results are different. Many times, having your own skips part of the process--they don't want to pay for an appraiser and referee if they will end up paying more. Having one at the beginning of the process suggests that you really know what it's worth, where they won't be so sure.

 

Count us in for an appraisal - DW says make sure to get a stand alone appraisal on me also, not sure what that's for....

Paula just wants you listed separately to avoid hurting the truck's value.

 

 

I might be wrong but my understanding is insurance companies have an obligation to replace your totaled vehicle with one of like kind,age etc. When it is not totaled is when it can get dicey. This is why a accurate stated cash value vs replacement cost should be close.

That would be a replacement cost policy, not actual cash value. If your truck were no longer available, replacement might mean one newer or with more options. With ACV, it's just what it's actually worth. If you can't find a replacement with that money, that's your problem, not theirs.

 

I establish a value through receipts. I've had no problem with this on my trucks, since 2003.Simply give them a copy and establish the truck's value with that. As you add stuff, update it from time-to-time. Of course, if you provide the labor you won't get true value that way, but it is better than nothing. IF you do a LOT of renovations yourself, it would be wise to get an appraisal from an independent appraiser. Just make SURE that appraiser is approved by your insurance company before you do it. Not all appraisals will be honored.

 

Once I get the policy updated I ask for anew copy of it to be sure that the value is correct. I've never had an issue getting them to update this.

One of the things to be careful about here is the value is the value of the whole, even if less than the sum of its parts. The receipts are still very valuable in showing what equipment was present, but don't think you can just add them up to get a number.

45' 2004 Showhauler -- VNL300, ISX, FreedomLine -- RVnerds.com -- where I've started to write about what I'm up to

Headlight and Fog Light Upgrades http://deepspacelighting.com

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Hi Carl,

 

I would be interested in an appraisal of my truck at this years ECR. Right now I do not know if I can make it to the nationals. The biggest thing would be to make the idea of an appraisal easy on you. If the idea of an appraisal can work I'm all in for it. I can understand that the time line for the ECR is moving quickly and time is not your friend right now.

 

Thank you for all of your hard work on the ECR's.

Al

So there will be a certified appraiser at the rally, details still to be figured out. But you can be sure there will be no confusion between a retired tractor and an RV hauler

 

 

 

See Al, ask and it shall be given! I'm in also.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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Might be something useful for the National Rally also????

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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Might be something useful for the National Rally also????

 

It may well be available there too.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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I'm in for an appraisal. It will be interesting to see what it comes in as, since I'm well aware of what "comparable" trucks sell for. And I'll have a newer truck and a new design bed with LOTS of accessory options. I realize there is some "art" to the process as well as just "numbers". That is why it will be "interesting". ;)

 

Oh, and David - I need lights, too. Just the bulbs....the housings are good. :) I assume you will have a bunch there.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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alan0043, on 18 Feb 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:snapback.png

Hi Carl,

I would be interested in an appraisal of my truck at this years ECR. Right now I do not know if I can make it to the nationals. The biggest thing would be to make the idea of an appraisal easy on you. If the idea of an appraisal can work I'm all in for it. I can understand that the time line for the ECR is moving quickly and time is not your friend right now.

Thank you for all of your hard work on the ECR's.
Al

So there will be a certified appraiser at the rally, details still to be figured out. But you can be sure there will be no confusion between a retired tractor and an RV hauler



See Al, ask and it shall be given! I'm in also.

 

 

Hi Carl,

 

Please let us know how to pay for the appraisal. Whether by credit card, cash, PayPal or etc..

 

Thank you for your work on this,

Al

2012 Volvo VNL 630 w/ I-Shift; D13 engine; " Veeger "
  Redwood, model 3401R ; 5th Wheel Trailer, " Dead Wood "
    2006 Smart Car " Killer Frog "
 

 

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Al,

 

Details to follow as soon as I get them. Still a work in progress.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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I'm going to set up a website to handle payment and uploading document and delivering the appraisal reports.

 

Considering the number of people interested, and other stuff going on during the rally week, I think my plan will be to begin collecting information ahead of the rally, make sure to gather photos and inspect trucks during the rally (or a little before/after), and then deliver the reports afterwards.

 

That way, just like grading exams, I can circle back to the first ones and make sure everything is consistent.

45' 2004 Showhauler -- VNL300, ISX, FreedomLine -- RVnerds.com -- where I've started to write about what I'm up to

Headlight and Fog Light Upgrades http://deepspacelighting.com

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alan0043, on 18 Feb 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:snapback.png

 

So there will be a certified appraiser at the rally, details still to be figured out. But you can be sure there will be no confusion between a retired tractor and an RV hauler

See Al, ask and it shall be given! I'm in also.

 

 

Hi Carl,

 

Please let us know how to pay for the appraisal. Whether by credit card, cash, PayPal or etc..

 

Thank you for your work on this,

Al

 

So there you have it Al. David Dixon will be the certified appraiser. He is in the process as we speak. He may detail more but as you know, David researches everything to the Nth degree and what we have shared was there is really not an existing appraiser that was adequately able to give a fair value for our truck conversions. David has first hand knowledge of our trucks and utilizing the appraisal data that is commonly used (which misses a lot) he will be able to add value hopefully so in the event of accident, where the truck is totaled, or if contemplating buying or selling a conversion a more realistic value will be available.

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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