To single or not to single

[jollyrogr]

Hello,

I'm new here and exploring my options for using a HDT to pull my 5er.  Does anyone here use a HDT for pulling an RV and also use the same truck to pull commercial equipment?  Could I install an air ride RV hitch behind the commercial 5th and still retain functionality of the commercial hitch?  We're farmers in IA, so having the ability to pull a grain trailer along with an RV would add value to the truck and I would leave the truck tandem.  If this isn't possible, I'd single short.  I also need to check on licensing fees to see if farmers get a better rate than commercial.  Otherwise licensing as a motorhome might be more economical.

Also, I see the term "DW" used on here a lot - what does that stand for exactly?

Thanks

[BlueLghtning]

I'm sure others will chime in with their input and probably have a better idea than I do, but if you are using a rig on the farm, is that considered commercial or does that fall under agriculture stuff and keep you non commercial? When others come in here asking about dual use of their truck, the commercial aspect of it gets in the way the most. 

As for the air ride hitch behind the commercial hitch, I would think as long as the grain trailer had enough clearance over the air hitch, you would be fine to use it. The pin height on the 5th wheel would determine where that air ride hitch would need to be mounted. How much weight do you haul with the grain trailer? I know Henry is building some pretty impressive ET hitches for the newer larger 5th wheels, but if you are hauling too much pin weight or overall weight for them, that wouldn't work.

I think your biggest challenge getting insurance as agriculture is wouldn't they expect you to keep the use around the farm? Would that work if you were traveling long distance in the truck with the camper? 

DW usually means "Dear Wife" when someone is talking about their significant other or DH for "Dear Husband". 

[jollyrogr]

If hauling grain, GCVW would be 80,000 most of the time.  During certain times of the year (harvest) they will raise the legal limit to 90,000.

[VegasFlyer]

3 hours ago, jollyrogr said:

Hello,

I'm new here and exploring my options for using a HDT to pull my 5er.  Does anyone here use a HDT for pulling an RV and also use the same truck to pull commercial equipment?  Could I install an air ride RV hitch behind the commercial 5th and still retain functionality of the commercial hitch?  We're farmers in IA, so having the ability to pull a grain trailer along with an RV would add value to the truck and I would leave the truck tandem.  If this isn't possible, I'd single short.  I also need to check on licensing fees to see if farmers get a better rate than commercial.  Otherwise licensing as a motorhome might be more economical.

Also, I see the term "DW" used on here a lot - what does that stand for exactly?

Thanks

First off, welcome to the Forum!

In answer to your question:

1. You can mount an rv air hitch inside the frame rails and still retain the commercial hitch.  This will limit to you having the commercial hitch at or near the rearward limits of travel, though for grain trailers, that should not be an issue.

2.  You can definitely keep the truck in a tandem configuration without any problems.

3. The use of Farm plates and what thier limitations might be, will vary from state to state.  I owned a truck in Oregon and one in Washington with farm plates.  At that time, they did not have many limitations other than I was hauling property that I owned, (similar to Private Truck plates) or hauling commodities to or from my farming enterprise.

 

[jollyrogr]

I called the county treasurers office (they do the vehicle licensing here) and got a rough estimate on what it would cost to license a farm truck.  The farm license maximum is 32 ton, but if you're a farmer hauling grain out of the field that's not scaled, you can go 25% over that and still be legal (40 ton).

I asked about registering as a motorhome and they couldn't tell me a price and generally seemed unfamiliar with the concept.  She said it depends on the make and model and cost of the motorhome and if I'm doing a conversion might need to be inspected by the DOT.  She gave me the phone number at the DOT to call and I haven't called.  Going the farm truck route is probably the best option for me even if it's more money cause that can be written off.  The truck would get more use too.

 

[jollyrogr]

32 minutes ago, VegasFlyer said:

First off, welcome to the Forum!

In answer to your question:

1. You can mount an rv air hitch inside the frame rails and still retain the commercial hitch.  This will limit to you having the commercial hitch at or near the rearward limits of travel, though for grain trailers, that should not be an issue.

2.  You can definitely keep the truck in a tandem configuration without any problems.

3. The use of Farm plates and what thier limitations might be, will vary from state to state.  I owned a truck in Oregon and one in Washington with farm plates.  At that time, they did not have many limitations other than I was hauling property that I owned, (similar to Private Truck plates) or hauling commodities to or from my farming enterprise.

 

1. Do you mean at the forward limits of travel? 

[VegasFlyer]

No, rearward.  You will have to move the commercial hitch back to allow for the clearance of the rv hitch extension to the frame.

[jollyrogr]

2 minutes ago, VegasFlyer said:

No, rearward.  You will have to move the commercial hitch back to allow for the clearance of the rv hitch extension to the frame.

Ok, so you're saying I'll have to move the commercial hitch assembly forward to make room for the RV hitch, meaning the commercial hitch will be in it's most rearward position?

Or are you thinking the RV hitch would mount forward of the commercial hitch?

[Chad Heiser]

9 minutes ago, jollyrogr said:

Ok, so you're saying I'll have to move the commercial hitch assembly forward to make room for the RV hitch, meaning the commercial hitch will be in it's most rearward position?

Or are you thinking the RV hitch would mount forward of the commercial hitch?

I'm not VegasFlyer, but what he is referring to is how the RV hitch will nee to be mounted.  In order to allow clearance for a commercial trailer using the commercial hitch, the RV hitch will have to be mounted between the frame rails and below the plain of the commercial hitch.  This means the RV hitch will have to be behind the rear most axle differential to allow for the up and down movement of the frame when air is added/dumped from the suspension.  The RV hitch will have to be completely behind the differential or it will hit the differential when air is dumped from the suspension or you encounter too much suspension travel going down the road over bumps, etc.  Typically, in order to accommodate this clearance the frame rails have to be extended behind the rear most axle to allow enough room to install the RV hitch.  This means more overhang that now has to be cleared by your commercial trailer, thus resulting in the commercial hitch having to be as far back on top of the rails as possible.  Hopefully that makes more sense.

[jollyrogr]

1 minute ago, Chad Heiser said:

I'm not VegasFlyer, but what he is referring to is how the RV hitch will nee to be mounted.  In order to allow clearance for a commercial trailer using the commercial hitch, the RV hitch will have to be mounted between the frame rails and below the plain of the commercial hitch.  This means the RV hitch will have to be behind the rear most axle differential to allow for the up and down movement of the frame when air is added/dumped from the suspension.  The RV hitch will have to be completely behind the differential or it will hit the differential when air is dumped from the suspension or you encounter too much suspension travel going down the road over bumps, etc.  Typically, in order to accommodate this clearance the frame rails have to be extended behind the rear most axle to allow enough room to install the RV hitch.  This means more overhang that now has to be cleared by your commercial trailer, thus resulting in the commercial hitch having to be as far back on top of the rails as possible.  Hopefully that makes more sense.

Yes, that makes sense.  Thank you.

Making a tandem truck longer was definitely not part of the plan.  If the commercial hitch was removed would the RV hitch still be mounted behind the rear axle on a tandem truck?

[Chad Heiser]

The RV hitch can be mounted over the axles or behind the axles (or as one member is currently trying to do - in front of the axles).  It is all about personal preference.  There are some RV air hitches that will allow you to mount them to the top of the frame rails and still keep proper height relationship to the 5th wheel.  Others are too tall and must be mounted between the frame rails to allow for proper ride height of the 5th wheel.  

There are some advantages to having the RV 5th wheel hitch behind the rear axle.  Typical RV pin weights aren't enough to adversely affect handling of an HDT with a hitch behind the axle.  Having the hitch behind the axle allows you to maneuver better while backing.  The wheel cut of a typical HDT combined with a rearward pin allows the trailer to get moving in the desired direction while backing much quicker than with a typical pick up with the hitch over the rear axle.  Also having the 5th wheel behind the rear axle allows the trailer to track more truly to the HDT's wheel track when making turns going forward.

[rickeieio]

First, check to see what restrictions might apply to a farm truck. In order to be exempt from commercial regs, you likely need to stay under 7500 miles/ yr, and no more than 150 miles from home. Exceed that, and license/insurance get crazy.

I have a farm semi and a fun semi (motor home).  It's cheaper for me, based in Ohio and Indiana.

[VegasFlyer]

46 minutes ago, jollyrogr said:

Yes, that makes sense.  Thank you.

Making a tandem truck longer was definitely not part of the plan.  If the commercial hitch was removed would the RV hitch still be mounted behind the rear axle on a tandem truck?

 

46 minutes ago, jollyrogr said:

Yes, that makes sense.  Thank you.

Making a tandem truck longer was definitely not part of the plan.  If the commercial hitch was removed would the RV hitch still be mounted behind the rear axle on a tandem truck?

The extension to the frame will not effect the overall length of your truck and commercial trailers and by moving the commercial hitch back, we are meaning to move it within the slider travel.  

If you look at the current project posted by Phoenix, you will be able to see what we are talking about.

if you are hauling normal grain trailers, there should not be any problems whatsoever.

[Flying Finn]

Whatever you decide to do, be sure your insurance company will cover you. Not saying you would do this but it has been reported that commercial users have insured their rigs as RV's to get reduced rates.  Later on they attempt to file a claim and get denied.  Prior to issuing an RV policy on "Rooster" I had to provide a photo proving that the commercial hitch was removed/replaced with an RV hitch. 

Just a thought

Brad

[jollyrogr]

Thanks Finn.  I don't see that being an issue with a farm truck.  I'd be more concerned about restrictions like rickeieio was talking about in which case I'd be better off to title as a motor home.

[VegasFlyer]

19 minutes ago, jollyrogr said:

Thanks Finn.  I don't see that being an issue with a farm truck.  I'd be more concerned about restrictions like rickeieio was talking about in which case I'd be better off to title as a motor home.

Or Private Truck.

If you title as a Motorhome and then tow grain trailers, even your own production, you are in a operation not consistent with a Motorhome.  

If you haul your own grain for sale, that is technically commercial.

The best thing to do is to get a hold of the Vehicle Code for Indiana and waste a few hours of your life reading all the applicable laws and regulations.  Something like you are looking at is not that common and you are unlikely to get a solid answer by calling DMV or the local tag office.  They are usually just clerks with a limited amount of training.

 

 

 

[jollyrogr]

3 minutes ago, VegasFlyer said:

Or Private Truck.

If you title as a Motorhome and then tow grain trailers, even your own production, you are in a operation not consistent with a Motorhome.  

If you haul your own grain for sale, that is technically commercial.

The best thing to do is to get a hold of the Vehicle Code for Indiana and waste a few hours of your life reading all the applicable laws and regulations.  Something like you are looking at is not that common and you are unlikely to get a solid answer by calling DMV or the local tag office.  They are usually just clerks with a limited amount of training.

 

 

 

Iowa, not Indiana.  Farm truck is essentially a private truck.  If I went motorhome route I would single the truck and remove the commercial hitch anyway.  I could possibly go with a lower tonnage farm truck and single the truck and remove the commercial hitch.  The lower tonnage just cheapens the registration. (yearly tax)

[rickeieio]

I penciled it 6 ways to Sunday, and the license and insurance savings convinced me to own two trucks.  Anything legal as a m/h would be terrible for hauling grain, and vice versa. Jeff C-IL came to the same conclusion.

As stated above, become familiar with the laws in YOUR state. Private truck is not an option in many states. Also, while hauling your own grain IS commercial use, some states don't claim jurisdiction so long as you fall under the rules for federal form 2290 as exempt.

[jollyrogr]

42 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

I penciled it 6 ways to Sunday, and the license and insurance savings convinced me to own two trucks.  Anything legal as a m/h would be terrible for hauling grain, and vice versa. Jeff C-IL came to the same conclusion.

As stated above, become familiar with the laws in YOUR state. Private truck is not an option in many states. Also, while hauling your own grain IS commercial use, some states don't claim jurisdiction so long as you fall under the rules for federal form 2290 as exempt.

I think you're right. Farm truck is only good within 150 miles of the farm and going to other states would mean a CDL is necessary (which I have) but I don't want to have to stop at scales and keep a log book. MH is the way to go and I will single short. I'll call the Iowa dot next week to see how tough they will make it to register as a MH. 

Do the sleeper hvac systems in these trucks qualify as being separate from the engine? 

[Brad & Jacolyn]

DW is devoted wife.

[Darryl&Rita]

In my business, DWT is a Dead Weight Tester. By default, DW must be Dead Weight. 

[phoenix2013]

Most likely on here DW = Dear Wife and on the flip coin

DH = Dear Husband

And a very active "sub-group" on this forum (197 thousands posts) RDBE's = Rigs Driven By Estrogen

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

On 7/7/2017 at 6:06 PM, jollyrogr said:

. 

Do the sleeper hvac systems in these trucks qualify as being separate from the engine? 

That depends on what is used to provide the heat or cool. If it is dependent on the engine, then no. If it uses an APU, then yes.

[jollyrogr]

1 hour ago, Mntom said:

That depends on what is used to provide the heat or cool. If it is dependent on the engine, then no. If it uses an APU, then yes.

In a Volvo truck for example. Having hvac that's independent of the engine is one of the IA requirements for a motor home. Will a space heater plugged into an APU meet that?

[Star Dreamer]

7 hours ago, jollyrogr said:

In a Volvo truck for example. Having hvac that's independent of the engine is one of the IA requirements for a motor home. Will a space heater plugged into an APU meet that?

If you have the APU you do not need the space heater. If you do not have an APU, use a shore power plug ( also one of the possible motorhome requirements) and then use a space heater. The requirement for separate heating does not need to be powered while you are moving.

Please note your local state may or may not accept the items you do to satisfy the motorhome requirements. Have a copy of your states requirements and if they say no be sure to get an explanation as to why and what part does not meet it.

Dave