Weight on axles and tire wear

[Heavymetal]

Where other then an Escapee's weigh in can I get my units axle weights done. I am starting a remodel on our fifth wheel and would like to balance it S to S and F to R while doing the remodel. We tow a 2005 Newmar Mountain Aire with the tandem 10k Dexter axles that are duals. I already keep my curbside tires inflated 10lbs less then the roadside due to the roadside being much heavier. I track the weight on my tires by the temps that they run, and the 10lb pressure difference S to S keeps them running at about the same temp (average) the problem I am trying to correct is not the weight each axle carries but each tire itself so I can get even wear and with the tandem dually setup that's  proving to be difficult.  The outer tires on the roadside (it being the heavy side) will run 8-10 degrees hottier then the inner ones and it's just the opposite on the curbside, so I have 4 tires that run hottier then the other four, I will have 4 tires at 113 degrees and 4 at 103 the only problem is the 4 running 113 are in 4 different positions on the unit. I need to figure out the weight each tire is carrying and adjust the pressure so I can get the even wear. Right now I am running 2 different pressures but I need to be running 4 different pressures and getting it weighed would keep me from a lot of trail and error. 

[noteven]

seems simple enough... I heard CAT scales have flat areas around the scale platform that allow you to leave wheels off side to side and on the corners. If the approaches are level to the scale you should get accurate enough weights. 

[NoDirectionHome]

If it's a longer term project, I'd probably buy some used platform scales from a broke-A$$ racer (lots of them) so I could measure as I build.  Finding a truly flat surface is critical at the spring rates of most trailers, as is tire pressure when measuring.

[jkoenig24]

Forum members Trey & Susan Selman have the equipment to PROPERLY weigh & analyze HDTs (as well as "regular" RVs). They're part of the RVSEF (RV Safety & Education Foundation) and, they did my rig at the National Rally a while back.

[Heavymetal]

1 hour ago, jkoenig24 said:

Forum members Trey & Susan Selman have the equipment to PROPERLY weigh & analyze HDTs (as well as "regular" RVs). They're part of the RVSEF (RV Safety & Education Foundation) and, they did my rig at the National Rally a while back.

Thanks. 

[HERO Maker]

Trey and Susan do a great job of getting you thru the process.  And then Trey goes over the report with you for total clarification. 

[Heavymetal]

3 hours ago, HERO Maker said:

Trey and Susan do a great job of getting you thru the process.  And then Trey goes over the report with you for total clarification. 

I will have to see where they are currently sitting. 

[sclord2002]

Wow, balancing what might be 8 different tire pressures sounds like a pain in the rear....or do you mean weighing only each axle end and adjusting that pair of dual tires to the same pressure ? I'm confusing myself when I read about adjusting each tires pressure........ I would think that adjusting the pressure in each set of dual tires would be sufficient but might not guarantee exactly equal tire wear. A difference in tire pressure between the dual tires on an axle end would almost surely cause unequal wear due to different effective tire circumferences caused by the differing pressures. My thoughts are based on physics and not any real world experience. My Volvo is the only tandem axle dually setup that I have ever run and I run Crossfires on them to equalize the  pressure between the duals on each axle end.    Be safe,    Charlie

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

2nd on the Crossfires.  That would keep the tire pressures equal at the end of each axle at least,

[Heavymetal]

6 hours ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

2nd on the Crossfires.  That would keep the tire pressures equal at the end of each axle at least,

But equal want work. They are equal now but with more weight on the outside tires they compress more which means more heat and uneven wear. I am thinking that the outer tire should have a little more pressure then the inner tires and opposite on the curb side to help balance the weight difference each tire carries. On my triple axle it was easy to get the right pressures but the tandem duals are proving more difficult. I gues I could just rotate more often but man that's a real pain in the rear. The real problem I think comes from the narrow frames the Mountain Aire has to allow the dual tire setup. 

[Heavymetal]

7 hours ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

2nd on the Crossfires.  That would keep the tire pressures equal at the end of each axle at least,

Ok I take back my last statement. I did some more reading on the crossfire and I think it's worth a try. I will let you know if it works out. 

[sclord2002]

Heavy, If you are interested in the crossfires, I have a source that will configure them with 3 schrader valves in case you want to run a seperate tpms sender for each tire and still have a single fill point for 2 tires. Tell him you talked to Charlie Lord and ask about  the "GOOD GUY" price.  I have no affiliation with this vendor but he really knows his products and is the only supplier that I know of that offers the 3 schrader valve setup. I love being able to fill 2 tires from one point and run TPMS on each tire. You can PM me for his name and number if you want.  Not being secretive, just don't want to be accused of advertising here.     Charlie

[Jack Mayer]

Go ahead and post the details, Charlie. 

[Nuke-E]

On 5/31/2017 at 11:48 PM, noteven said:

seems simple enough... I heard CAT scales have flat areas around the scale platform that allow you to leave wheels off side to side and on the corners. If the approaches are level to the scale you should get accurate enough weights. 

While my setup isn't a fifth-wheel, I did just that this morning.  Two trips through the scales--once with the whole rig, the second time only getting the wheels from one side on the scales.  $11 for the first trip through, another $2 for the re-weigh.

I had gotten axle weights a few years ago, but had never bothered with side-to-side.  I expected the left side to be heavy, with generator and slide both over there (the lead acid house batteries were there too, but those are long gone).  Good news is the front axle lost about 600 lbs, some of which should be attributable to moving the batteries.

As it turns out, the left front is 100 lbs lighter than right front.  Milo spends most of his time on the couch on long trips, not in the front seat where he was for weighing, so that's about as good as it gets.

In back, the difference was only 40 lbs, still heavy on the right side. 

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

10 hours ago, Jack Mayer said:

Go ahead and post the details, Charlie. 

Not Charlie, But I saved this from the original thread in 2014.

"I ordered my Crossfires from Ed Donnelly (sp?) Enterprises at 1-800-774-1944. Please tell him that Charlie Lord told you about him and his "GOOD GUY" price on the RVNetwork HDT site. I think he will be surprised by the number of folks who may be interested in this product. Ed sells PressurePro TPMS and Crossfires and is very well versed on his products. He seems like a real nice guy, also. Give him a call and he will answer any questions you may have. The reason I am so jazzed up on this is that the Crossfire folks said that there was not such a product.......but I found out that there is one, and Ed has it and at a good price. I will try to attach a picture of the unit. Jack, I'm sorry to disappoint you but this unit is set up to use a sender from EACH tire, which was what I wanted. I have heard mixed responses about using only one sensor per dual tire set. He does sell just the hoses if you want to experiment using only one sender. I would be interested in how that works out. I hope to have mine by the ECR in Crossville. Drat, the picture is too big to upload and I'm too dumb to know how to change it..... Charlie"

 

[sclord2002]

Jim, thanks....you beat me on the reply.  Ed is a good guy.     Charlie

[Dollytrolley]

On 5/31/2017 at 7:50 PM, Heavymetal said:

Where other then an Escapee's weigh in can I get my units axle weights done. I am starting a remodel on our fifth wheel and would like to balance it S to S and F to R while doing the remodel. We tow a 2005 Newmar Mountain Aire with the tandem 10k Dexter axles that are duals. I already keep my curbside tires inflated 10lbs less then the roadside due to the roadside being much heavier. I track the weight on my tires by the temps that they run, and the 10lb pressure difference S to S keeps them running at about the same temp (average) the problem I am trying to correct is not the weight each axle carries but each tire itself so I can get even wear and with the tandem dually setup that's  proving to be difficult.  The outer tires on the roadside (it being the heavy side) will run 8-10 degrees hottier then the inner ones and it's just the opposite on the curbside, so I have 4 tires that run hottier then the other four, I will have 4 tires at 113 degrees and 4 at 103 the only problem is the 4 running 113 are in 4 different positions on the unit. I need to figure out the weight each tire is carrying and adjust the pressure so I can get the even wear. Right now I am running 2 different pressures but I need to be running 4 different pressures and getting it weighed would keep me from a lot of trail and error. 

Heavy

You got me think'n this morning 11:00 AM so........I took some tire temps and here is my results

Freightshaker : Steer Driver side tire 103, wheel 98f

                         Steer Pass side   tire  81f, wheel 77f

                         Drive axles - driver side outer tire 104f,  wheel 98f

                         Drive axles - driver side inner tire 95f,  wheel 91f

                         Drive axles - pass side outer tire 82f,  wheel 77f

                         Drive axles - pass side inner tire 82f,  wheel 77f

                          

Toy hauler:       Driver side tire 144f   wheel 102f

                        Pass   side tire 94 f    wheel 80f

Pickup:             Driver side 143f wheel 100f

                         Pass side  94f  wheel 84f

Horse trailer:    Driver side tire 163f wheel 139f

                         Pass side tire   94f wheel 89f

Note: Drivers side was South (sunny) Pass -North

Gravel road temp 98f

Pavement 109f

Air temp 95

Later at 13:00 the air temp here at Last chance peak was 101f

Wally down the hill in Death Valley said it was only 113.2f and he still wears his long johns till he gets a solid 115f

Now all the above tire temps are static and the Freightshaker had tire covers on........

The Tireman has posted that it is normal for tires to operate at 10f to 60f above road temps so down in Death Valley the road temp will hover at around 130f today ......so........a tire temp of 190f might be.........normal.....if there is a .....normal in Death Valley......

In a few days we will likely load Dolly-the-paint-horse and wonder up to central Oregon where the ski area just allowed cars up the road without chains on.........

Seems if you can stay out of the sun it is good for tire temps.....

 

Drive on...........(101f time for more ice in the......... Dr Pepper.....or whatever)

 

                          

[Heavymetal]

1 hour ago, Dollytrolley said:

Drive on...........(101f time for more ice in the......... Dr Pepper.....or whatever)

You must know by now that here in Texas Dr Pepper is the drink of choice. It was invented in Waco, Texas if I am not mistaken. Big 5er can correct me if I am wrong on that. 

When my son was growing up he like D.P. So everytime I would want one they would all be gone so I started drinking A&W Cream Soda because he didn't like it and I still drink it to this day. I have to bring a supply with me when we travel because you can't get just any and everywhere. 

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.