First weigh in, truck and trailer

[lockmup68]

Before the trip last week, when fueling up, weighed the truck only. Then on the way to Raleigh, weighed the whole rig. I need some sleep, been working too much, but these numbers were not adding up in my mind:

Truck only:

Truck and trailer:

So I'm staring at these numbers for a long time and can't figure out how the heck the Teton weighs 27,940 lbs. I keep redoing the figures on the calculator and keep getting same results. And how do I have 11,340 pin weight? 

Oh yeah, the Escape is up on the deck with the trailer...duh. So, I need to weigh the truck with the Escape on the deck, no trailer to get an accurate measurement. Time for bed now.....

 

[VegasFlyer]

Well that accounts for about 3,500 pounds.

Did you have a fat Lot Lizard sitting inside the Escape?

[lockmup68]

I do know my hitch is six inches too low. So the trailer is down front a lot, which I assume is causing more weight to be on pin. Need to weigh individual axles as well. Besides the rally in Oct. where does one get the good individual weights done?

the water tank was full on this weigh as well as Grey water was 90% full as I couldn't dump before leaving RVs for Less after water heater install  (Truma-love it). So Grey tank is 90 gallons and fresh tank is 92 gallons  and black is 70  black was only 1/3 full. 

So figure low estimate of 125 gallons of water on board, or little over 1,000 lbs (1042.5) just in water.

I will weigh again next week in trip back to TN for comparison. 

[NoDirectionHome]

Are you thinking your increase in rear axle weight is your pin weight?  It's not.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

That leaves you close to 6800 on the pin.  You might be getting some weight transfer from the low pin, but not as much as you think.  Weigh the Escape and see what the real weight is with gas in it, and your other in car necessities.  The other part is that everyone says that Teton's are heavy..... here's your proof.

[phoenix2013]

1. Subtract the gross weights    51,700 - 23,760 = 27,940   this is the gross weight of a Teton

2. Subtract the steer axle weights 11,240 - 9,900 = 1,340   this is the weight transfer from the front axle to the rear axle because of the long cantilever of the hitch location.

3. Subtract rear axle weights 23,860 - 12,720 = 11,340   this is the pin weight plus the weight transfer

4, Subtract the trailer axle from the trailer gross 27, 940 - 17,940 = 10,000   this is your your pin weight WOW, WOW!

5. Add pin weight to the rear axle weight transfer to truck axle empty 10,000 + 1,340 + 12,520 = 23,860   everything checks out, since this is truck axle loaded.

That Trailer Saver must be saying " Dear Lord, just take me into thy fold, I have done thy bidding, and have suffered greatly toiling on this and thy earth".

I am not surprised by the Teton weight but something rotten is in your setup, you have 35.7% pin ratio, more is better but that is quite a ways beyond 25%. The only thing I can "postulate on" is that the fifth riding as low as it is in the front transfers more weight to the pin compared to the fifth riding level. Or that the gold bars you are carrying in the safe in the bedroom closet need to move (the bars and the safe) to someplace under the living room couch.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

1 minute ago, phoenix2013 said:

1. Subtract the gross weights    51,700 - 23,760 = 27,940   this is the gross weight of a Teton

2. Subtract the steer axle weights 11,240 - 9,900 = 1,340   this is the weight transfer from the front axle to the rear axle because of the long cantilever of the hitch location.

3. Subtract rear axle weights 23,860 - 12,720 = 11,340   this is the pin weight plus the weight transfer

4, Subtract the trailer axle from the trailer gross 27, 940 - 17,940 = 10,000   this is your your pin weight WOW, WOW!

5. Add pin weight to the rear axle weight transfer to truck axle empty 10,000 + 1,340 + 12,520 = 23,860   everything checks out, since this is truck axle loaded.

That Trailer Saver must be saying " Dear Lord, just take me into thy fold, I have done thy bidding, and have suffered greatly toiling on this and thy earth".

I am not surprised by the Teton weight but something rotten is in your setup, you have 35.7% pin ratio, more is better but that is quite a ways beyond 25%. The only thing I can "postulate on" is that the fifth riding as low as it is in the front transfers more weight to the pin compared to the fifth riding level. Or that the gold bars you are carrying in the safe in the bedroom closet need to move (the bars and the safe) to someplace under the living room couch.

He had his Ford Escape on the back of the truck when he weighed with the RV.

Didn't have it loaded with just the truck weight.

[phoenix2013]

Ah, that explains EVERYTHING! The Ford Escape needs to come off the truck for both measurement or stay on for both measurements to make the math work. So forget the fancy calculations I did above. The Teton would obviously be lighter by the weight of the Ford Escape don't know what the pin weight would be since the location of the car on deck and hitch location have cantilever effect on each other.

[Dollytrolley]

1 hour ago, lockmup68 said:

I do know my hitch is six inches too low. So the trailer is down front a lot, which I assume is causing more weight to be on pin. Need to weigh individual axles as well. Besides the rally in Oct. where does one get the good individual weights done?

the water tank was full on this weigh as well as Grey water was 90% full as I couldn't dump before leaving RVs for Less after water heater install  (Truma-love it). So Grey tank is 90 gallons and fresh tank is 92 gallons  and black is 70  black was only 1/3 full. 

So figure low estimate of 125 gallons of water on board, or little over 1,000 lbs (1042.5) just in water.

I will weigh again next week in trip back to TN for comparison. 

Hey lock,

Seems like you got your a bit of a puzzle started here......

In the Stone Age I held some grim jobs where I had to solve these puzzles most every day so once you get the hang of the game it is......duck soup....sorta.

To "solve" the puzzle.....I would need a nice long tape measure (slightly longer than your trailer) and a pencil and paper......bingo , puzzle solved.....sorta.

1.  Unload the car and drive the car to the scales and weigh each axle weight of the car seperately...

2.  Measure the exact wheel base of the car, write the wheelbase of the car on the paper.

3.  Hitch up the trailer to the truck and then weigh both the truck and the trailer at the CAT scale.

4.  Now get your tape measure out and measure and write down on the paper the following:

1M.  Measure from the steer axle to each drive axle and write on the paper.

2M.  Measure from the steer axle to the truck hitch pin, write it down.

3M.  Measure from the steer axle to: center of , each fuel tank, driver & pass seat, condo cargo compartments, drom box, each bed cargo box, write each set of numbers down.

4M.   Measure and write down from the trailer hitch pin to the center of the following; each trailer axle center line, each liquid tank, center of each cargo compartment, each propane tank, write it all down.

5M.   Document the capacity of each liquid tank and write it down.

Next, send ALL of the above numbers via email to.    mmcdan3189@aol.com and I'll cipher the numbers into something that might solve the puzzle......

The devil is in the details as they say.....

Then you will need to weigh each wheel location......for the final puzzle answer.

 

Drive on.......(few numbers ciphered and......puzzle solved)

[lockmup68]

like I said, need some sleep. Took me over an hour to realize that the Escape was on the bed in the fully hitched up weight. Dolly, I'll get the measurements in a few days for you.

Appreciate all the help. I do have the 3rd bag on the TS hitch. Next project is getting the trailer level and the pin box extended. 

When I had it at RVs for Less getting the water heater installed on Monday, they hooked the yard truck up to move it around (1996 Single cab powerstroke) and it was STRAINING to move the Teton around. the rear hitch was almost dragging the ground. Bent the old, well abused reese hitch plate that was on rails in the truck. 

[beyerjf]

There are a couple of cool things you can do at most Cat Scales to get more info than usual.  Courtesy of their liberal reweigh policy, which is only $2, and I think you have at least 2 reweighs per full price weight ticket. You will be pulling off the scale and hiking it inside every time, that is the only way their machine will print a ticket. 

1. If you want to know what individual axles weigh, as an example, the 2 axles on the trailer, put each axle on a different platform. Because some of the vehicle might be off any of the platforms, the only weight information will be the ground pressure on those 2 platforms will be valid  That info and a calculator will help answer some questions.

2. Because Cat Scales are usually designed to accommodate wide loads, the area around the scale platform is pretty generous. This time intentionally align yourself with  left side trailer tires off one side of the platform,   That way that platform will only register the right set of tires. Go inside, pay for the reweigh, and do the other side. 

Bring some good hiking sneakers....

 

 

 

 

 

[Mastercraft]

21 hours ago, lockmup68 said:

Before the trip last week, when fueling up, weighed the truck only. Then on the way to Raleigh, weighed the whole rig. I need some sleep, been working too much, but these numbers were not adding up in my mind:

Truck only:

Truck and trailer:

So I'm staring at these numbers for a long time and can't figure out how the heck the Teton weighs 27,940 lbs. I keep redoing the figures on the calculator and keep getting same results. And how do I have 11,340 pin weight? 

Oh yeah, the Escape is up on the deck with the trailer...duh. So, I need to weigh the truck with the Escape on the deck, no trailer to get an accurate measurement. Time for bed now.....

 

I thought my weights were a bit off but, your numbers look a lot like mine loaded with the Mini on the deck.   9800#, 25000#, and 15000#.   I have no weight for the truck with Mini and no trailer.

[lockmup68]

OK, made it back to TN. Unhooked trailer and ran down two exits to weigh the truck with the escape on it to get an accurate measurement. New numbers, WITH Escape loaded:

Front Axle: 12,040

Drive Axles: 15,640

Total: 27,680

Applying new figures to Henry's math from above, if my math is correct:

1. Subtract the gross weights    51,700 - 27,680 = 24,020   this is the gross weight of the Teton

2. Subtract the steer axle weights 12,040 - 9,900 = 2,140  this is the weight transfer from the front axle to the rear axle because of the long cantilever of the hitch location.

3. Subtract rear axle weights 23,860 - 15,640 = 8,220  this is the pin weight plus the weight transfer

4, Subtract the trailer axle from the trailer gross 24,020 - 17,940 = 6,080  this is your pin weight.

5. Add pin weight to the rear axle weight transfer to truck axle empty 6,080 + 2,140 + 15,640 = 23,860   everything checks out, since this is truck axle loaded.

Couple of notes, completely full water tank, 92 gallons @ 8.4lbs = 772.80 lbs. 1/2 grey tank, and 1/4 black tank. Grey is 90 gallons and Black is 72, so figure 50 gallons = 420 lbs. So I should be able to shed 1,192 lbs from trailer weight pretty easy. Stayed at the state fairgrounds and wasn't able to dump berfore taking off and had water tank full for walmart hopping on way back (ended up doing Cracer Barrel as Wally world had no overnight parking signs).

Although not hooked up yet, I do have all the batteries on board, wire, etc. Have not ordered the inverter yet. 

So weights are now accurate and not as bad as before, however, Teton is still heavy! 

 

[Dollytrolley]

11 hours ago, lockmup68 said:

OK, made it back to TN. Unhooked trailer and ran down two exits to weigh the truck with the escape on it to get an accurate measurement. New numbers, WITH Escape loaded:

Front Axle: 12,040

Drive Axles: 15,640

Total: 27,680

Applying new figures to Henry's math from above, if my math is correct:

1. Subtract the gross weights    51,700 - 27,680 = 24,020   this is the gross weight of the Teton

2. Subtract the steer axle weights 12,040 - 9,900 = 2,140  this is the weight transfer from the front axle to the rear axle because of the long cantilever of the hitch location.

3. Subtract rear axle weights 23,860 - 15,640 = 8,220  this is the pin weight plus the weight transfer

4, Subtract the trailer axle from the trailer gross 24,020 - 17,940 = 6,080  this is your pin weight.

5. Add pin weight to the rear axle weight transfer to truck axle empty 6,080 + 2,140 + 15,640 = 23,860   everything checks out, since this is truck axle loaded.

Couple of notes, completely full water tank, 92 gallons @ 8.4lbs = 772.80 lbs. 1/2 grey tank, and 1/4 black tank. Grey is 90 gallons and Black is 72, so figure 50 gallons = 420 lbs. So I should be able to shed 1,192 lbs from trailer weight pretty easy. Stayed at the state fairgrounds and wasn't able to dump berfore taking off and had water tank full for walmart hopping on way back (ended up doing Cracer Barrel as Wally world had no overnight parking signs).

Although not hooked up yet, I do have all the batteries on board, wire, etc. Have not ordered the inverter yet. 

So weights are now accurate and not as bad as before, however, Teton is still heavy! 

 

 

Lock..............suppose you decide to........lighten up the old Teton so....................................

You drain the fresh water tank down to 20 gallons...................................................

EMPTY the Black Water Tank..................................................

EMPTY the grey water tank..........................................

Now.......whatcha think the "NEW" steer axle weighs now ?   ?      ?          ?             ?(hint .....it MIGHT have got heavier)

Now......whatcha think "NEW" hitch pin weight weight is now ?   ?      ?        ?  (hint......who knows)

At this point it seems that you are well on your way to having NO clue to any "accurate--weights" at all..........

Now Henry tried to help you out with a WAG-STATIC weight accounting of your combo but he got........tripped up and "wrapped-around-the-axle" so the speak in that he forgot that the darn Escort was loaded in the deck of the truck so his numbers were worthless since NO ONE KNOWS how to separate the weight of the Escort from the hitch pin weight since NO ONE has ever determined where the CENTER OF GRAVITY AND WEIGHT of the Escort IS ...........AND so ........NO ONE KNOWS what effect that loading the Escort on to the back of the truck bed has on the CENTER OF GRAVITY OF THE TRUCK and therefore NO ONE KNOWS THE effect of various loads of the Teton since NO ONE knows the CENTER OF GRAVITY of the trailer and NO ONE KNOWS what effect the loading OR un-loading various tanks and cargo will have on the trailer CENTER OF GRAVITY and therefor the ACTUAL HITCH PIN WEIGHT.

WITHOUT getting out the tape measure and DOCUMENTING the CENTERS OF GRAVITY of each of your various variable loads .........you are screwed trying to make sense of where your total rig weights are.......

 

Trust me, I been doing this thing for more than FIFTY Years in Life-Critical applications and IF someone could come up with a way skip the tape measure steps I would have gladly payed big $$$$$$....... but so far no one has found the short-cut.......

 

Trey comments at times here on the forum,  that MORE than 50% of ALL RV's that they weigh EXCEED one or more weight capacities that the RV was certified for from the factory.

 

Lock you have some scale weight slips........you just have NO idea of the true BALANCE of your complete RV combo.......this is how folks get on the wrong side of the 50% of RV weights......

I know what I proposed regarding tape measurements in my earlier part of this thread is a bit of work to measure and document but, IF you do that and send me the numbers we should arrive at some numbers that will work well into your future loads....... 

WITHOUT the BALANCE numbers the RV is driving blind........

 

Drive on..........(Weight & Balance is fairly simple......unless you lose the Balance)

[phoenix2013]

Those are some "lovely numbers". Gross weight 24K, pin weight 6K, 25%..........................................

Did Teton know how to build trailers, or did they, even though this was not too accommodating to the LGT crowd.

For the benefit of lurkers and newbies Little Girly Truck  

[CampClownPete]

11 hours ago, Dollytrolley said:

 

Lock..............suppose you decide to........lighten up the old Teton so....................................

You drain the fresh water tank down to 20 gallons...................................................

EMPTY the Black Water Tank..................................................

EMPTY the grey water tank..........................................

Now.......whatcha think the "NEW" steer axle weighs now ?   ?      ?          ?             ?(hint .....it MIGHT have got heavier)

Now......whatcha think "NEW" hitch pin weight weight is now ?   ?      ?        ?  (hint......who knows)

At this point it seems that you are well on your way to having NO clue to any "accurate--weights" at all..........

Now Henry tried to help you out with a WAG-STATIC weight accounting of your combo but he got........tripped up and "wrapped-around-the-axle" so the speak in that he forgot that the darn Escort was loaded in the deck of the truck so his numbers were worthless since NO ONE KNOWS how to separate the weight of the Escort from the hitch pin weight since NO ONE has ever determined where the CENTER OF GRAVITY AND WEIGHT of the Escort IS ...........AND so ........NO ONE KNOWS what effect that loading the Escort on to the back of the truck bed has on the CENTER OF GRAVITY OF THE TRUCK and therefore NO ONE KNOWS THE effect of various loads of the Teton since NO ONE knows the CENTER OF GRAVITY of the trailer and NO ONE KNOWS what effect the loading OR un-loading various tanks and cargo will have on the trailer CENTER OF GRAVITY and therefor the ACTUAL HITCH PIN WEIGHT.

WITHOUT getting out the tape measure and DOCUMENTING the CENTERS OF GRAVITY of each of your various variable loads .........you are screwed trying to make sense of where your total rig weights are.......

 

Trust me, I been doing this thing for more than FIFTY Years in Life-Critical applications and IF someone could come up with a way skip the tape measure steps I would have gladly payed big $$$$$$....... but so far no one has found the short-cut.......

 

Trey comments at times here on the forum,  that MORE than 50% of ALL RV's that they weigh EXCEED one or more weight capacities that the RV was certified for from the factory.

 

Lock you have some scale weight slips........you just have NO idea of the true BALANCE of your complete RV combo.......this is how folks get on the wrong side of the 50% of RV weights......

I know what I proposed regarding tape measurements in my earlier part of this thread is a bit of work to measure and document but, IF you do that and send me the numbers we should arrive at some numbers that will work well into your future loads....... 

WITHOUT the BALANCE numbers the RV is driving blind........

 

Drive on..........(Weight & Balance is fairly simple......unless you lose the Balance)

This is 100% correct!

[lockmup68]

I will get the measurements, as soon as I can not get soaking wet. Be a few days. 

[lockmup68]

Reviving this old thread. I finally found my long tape measure, Here is a bunch of measurements. Working on the missing info right now.

Center front axle to center mid axle 230”

Center front axle to center rear axle 285”

Front of bed to rear of bed 241” (ramp

Mounts)

Center mid axle to center kingpin 124”

Center rear axle to center kingpin 77”

Center of tandems to center kingpin 111”

Front of bed to center kingpin 226”

Bed to cab clearance 3.5”

Bed is 96” wide. 

Front of bed to first angle down on bed 144.5”

Angle down length 28”

From down angle to end of bed 69.5”

Kingpin to end of bed 14”

Deck drop 9”

Top angle of bed to end of ramp Mount 96”

Ramp mount 1.25” wide

Opening for hitch is 32.5” long x 28” wide

Center of front axle to front of bed 136”

Here is a side view of the truck for reference:

[Dollytrolley]

Lock,

Long-time-no-hear........ sounds like you have been busy.....

We have been a bit busy with 91 y mom-n-law but we have hid the chainsaws so the future looks a bit better.

 

As long as you got your tape measure out and warmed up it would be helpful to stand back and consider your VARIABLE WEIGHT CENTERS of GRAVITY(s) (VWCG).......Here is how I go about getting a COMPLETE RV weight and balance.....

1)   Stand back and look at the ENTIRE RV in a side view and make a list of the locations that tend to have VARIABLE WEIGHT CENTERS of GRAVITY(s) (VWCG). So.....if we gaze at your pics from front to back first I see.....cab seats, next fuel tanks, next Condo-sleeper, next maybe drom-box?, next bed-tool-boxes, next Ford on bed, next hitch, next Front 5er cargo-bay (maybe propane bottles?), next each side cargo bay, next grey water tank, next black water tank, next fresh water tanks(s), next Other locations that may have substantial VWCG loadings on your RV, reference all trailer numbers from a common point often the hitch pin works well.

2)  Next write down your best info regarding the various weights centered at each of the VWCG's listed in item #1.

3)  Next post the numbers in items 1 & 2 on this thread and also email them to me at mmcdan3189@aol.com and then we can do some magic with some third-grade math and cipher your rigs weight & balance and then you can troll around the RV park and impress the chicks at the pickle-ball court with your RV weight and balance numbers.......

 

Drive on..........(chicks are hard to impress .....unless $ are in front of the numbers....)