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Ordering a new Volvo and could use some opinions


13speed

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42 minutes ago, 13speed said:

How did this thread turn into a weight watchers meeting?:unsure: I personally do not have any target weight and when I said light and nimbal I meant by not having the big 670/780 sleepers for weight and the short nose of the VNR and small sleeper for nimble maneuvering.  

Current specks below, let me know what you all think.

D13 455-eco.

Davco fuel pro 382 fluid heat

Non OD ishift with 2.50 rear gear. 65mph at 1350 according to a gearing calc I am using.

23K rear axle with 20K suspension and Diff lock.

12.5K front axle with 12K springs

295/75/22.5 on Alcoa one's

100/75 gallon tanks

Disc brakes both axles.

177WB

All kinds of shiny polished and chrome things plus leather heated seats, leather steering wheel, hood mirrors, PWR locks.

Dash shifter

Weed burner

Thats the big stuff.

Questions comments or concerns???

 

 

 

In my eyes, that would be darn near perfect.  Hook 'er up to a 45' stacker toy hauler and let the fun begin.:wub:

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15 minutes ago, Larry&Donna-AK said:

Looks great. Interior have them add a few USB charging ports, I forgot, and some extra "Aux" switches for future use.;)

Got 2 on the order sheet!

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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No Aux cab heater?

Power Windows?

Aux exterior driving lights?

LED headlights?

Smart cruise?

Smart stereo?

Heated windshield?

Aux power point in the overhead.

Inverter?

Settings for rear LED's?

Air line stub out.

Side fairing available?

Why this truck over your 630?

 

 

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I'd personally be looking at 65 at 1250.  But if you like the higher rpm because of the torque curve that might work. Ultimately, it is up to you. It should pull down to around 56-57 before dropping to 11th on cruise, at least. You need to be very careful about the gearing and the cruise scenarios. 

 

My 2012 730 has the D13 Ecco-Torque 425, non-overdrive iShift, 2.47 rear with 275/80R22.5 tires.  (Very similar spec to what 13speed is proposing)

Here is the PRM to speed ratios:

70 mph @ 1487 RPM
68 mph @ 1450 RPM
66 mph @ 1400 RPM
65 mph @ 1380 RPM
63 mph @ 1350 RPM
61 mph @ 1300 RPM 

 
 

Av8r3400
2012 Volvo VNL 730 D13 iShift & 2021 Grand Design Momentum 397TH

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I'd rather die trying to live - Than live trying not to die.   -Leonard Perry

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3 hours ago, MrSeas said:

No Aux cab heater? No. Its a 42" sleeper and its only reason for existing is to be a place for my dogs to sit.

Power Windows? Yes

Aux exterior driving lights? Yes

LED headlights? Yes

Smart cruise? No

Smart stereo? They say that the touch screen is not available yet.

Heated windshield? No. If I am ever in a situation where I needed that feature then I will have completely failed:D

Aux power point in the overhead. No. 

Inverter? No. see #1

Settings for rear LED's? What is that? I have "Dual super 44 LED with separate LED backup" What ever that is...

Air line stub out. Yes

Side fairing available? Don't want it. Requires more clearance meaning a 1' longer truck. 

Why this truck over your 630? #1 its new and It has a warranty! It is lower and much shorter so it will be better for bobtailing as this will be our only vehicle while traveling. It also should keep us really close to 65' not only for most states laws but just so it easier to fit in places and be just less obnoxiously large. oh.....did I mention it was new?

 

 

 

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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19 hours ago, 13speed said:

How did this thread turn into a weight watchers meeting?:unsure: I personally do not have any target weight and when I said light and nimbal I meant by not having the big 670/780 sleepers for weight and the short nose of the VNR and small sleeper for nimble maneuvering.  

Current specks below, let me know what you all think.

D13 455-eco.

Davco fuel pro 382 fluid heat

Non OD ishift with 2.50 rear gear. 65mph at 1350 according to a gearing calc I am using.

23K rear axle with 20K suspension and Diff lock.

12.5K front axle with 12K springs

295/75/22.5 on Alcoa one's

100/75 gallon tanks

Disc brakes both axles.

177WB

All kinds of shiny polished and chrome things plus leather heated seats, leather steering wheel, hood mirrors, PWR locks.

Dash shifter

Weed burner

Thats the big stuff.

Questions comments or concerns???

 

 

 

13, 

Great point about the hijack into Weightwatchers......of course Scrap is just pulling my chain by egging me into cipher ing out the Wt & Bal since the Kwopper main office can't do math like I can .......oh ya.......right dah....

 

No Scrap is just jerking my geezer-chain and drinking Dr Pepper laced with Crown Royal or.......Crown Royal laced with ice......

Anyhow .....maybe.....just maybe Scrap has these NEW trucks sitting out in the back yard and he might cut you a heck of a deal IF I run some nifty Weight & Balance numbers with your configurations and then he suckers you into a NEW Kwopper.........sneaky sales sleaze......but heck we seem to be livin in the "Art-of-the-Deal" times lately.......

 

Remember the most dangerous animal is........a truck sales geek with a truck in inventory.......no one is safe.

 

Now in the final stages of geezer is that I am in I can't afford to tick too many folks off so maybe I might need to start a thread to run the rest of the Weight & Balances on the last 3 Kwopprs that Scrap has and then Scrap can close in on you and suck another sale away from the Volvo camp........

 

Just imagine the pickle the Kwopper engineering geeks would be in if they did not have me to do the Wt & Bal on the trucks sitting on the back lot......

 

So........enjoy the new truck.......whatever brand you buy......

 

Drive on........(enjoy the ride....)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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Does anyone know of a good shop I can trust to do the hitch install? I have just been dumped by Gregg and company for having "Novel ideas" that don't conform to basically what everyone else does. I guess that thinking out side of the box is not welcomed at RVH Lifestyles so I am now back to square one with this build. 

I am getting freaked out that I am about to put down a lot of money for a new truck and will not be able to get the hitch installed. 

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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Talk to Donnie, at my shop. Starfab, They're further North, but will work with you to build what you want, on your budget.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


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Any truck up-fitter/bodybuilder should be able to accomplish what you are planning and probably at a lot less cost.  It's done all the time for cranes, roll-on refuse trucks etc. all the time.

"There are No Experts, Do the Math!"

2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp  1850ft-lb  18spd  3.31  260"wb
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SKP #131740

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22 minutes ago, 13speed said:

Does anyone know of a good shop I can trust to do the hitch install? I have just been dumped by Gregg and company for having "Novel ideas" that don't conform to basically what everyone else does. I guess that thinking out side of the box is not welcomed at RVH Lifestyles so I am now back to square one with this build. 

I am getting freaked out that I am about to put down a lot of money for a new truck and will not be able to get the hitch installed. 

Well, my perception is that you were not "dumped" by anyone. Gregg worked with you to try to find a solution for your desired outcome. He spent a LOT of time on that. But given that Henry has said the hitch will not meet your requirements, and New Horizons has said that no modification to the trailer pin position is possible, then I'm not sure what else Gregg could have done to help you. He worked with both parties to try to come up with a solution. Given both other parties declined all the available possibilities that meet your "needs", what else could you expect?

The real answer is to use a Spacecraft semi, with a nice aluminum commercial hitch set just forward of the axle.  This would solve all of your issues, maximize your trailer length because of the additional overlap, and keep you within your 65' that you desire. Trying to modify all the elements of both the truck, trailer, and air ride hitch to duplicate that did not work out. It was a stretch goal, at best, IMO.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
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12 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Talk to Donnie, at my shop. Starfab, They're further North, but will work with you to build what you want, on your budget.

Thanks I will give them a call.

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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6 minutes ago, NoDirectionHome said:

Any truck up-fitter/bodybuilder should be able to accomplish what you are planning and probably at a lot less cost.  It's done all the time for cranes, roll-on refuse trucks etc. all the time.

There was no bed going on this truck. It was basically mounting the hitch and some other light work. No hauler body. Given the hitch manufacturer AND trailer manufacturer nixed the desired modifications, how is it that another shop is going to do it at "less cost". I doubt that cranes uses these hitches????  So I don't really understand the point.  Chris has a specific set of requirements that the component manufacturers will not buy into. I've noted the solution above. And that would be what I'd recommend in this case. 

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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1 minute ago, Jack Mayer said:

Well, my perception is that you were not "dumped" by anyone. Gregg worked with you to try to find a solution for you desired outcome. He spent a LOT of time on that. But given that Henry has said the hitch will not meet your requirements, and New Horizons has said that no modification to the trailer pin position is possible, then I'm not sure what else Gregg could have done to help you. He worked with both parties to try to come up with a solution. Given both other parties declined all the available possibilities that meet your "needs", what else could you expect?

The real answer is to use a Spacecraft semi, with a nice aluminum commercial hitch set just forward of the axle.  This would solve all of your issues, maximize your trailer length because of the additional overlap, and keep you within your 65' that you desire. Trying to modify all the elements of both the truck, trailer, and air ride hitch to duplicate that did not work out. It was a stretch goal, at best, IMO.

Henry did NOT say anything of the sort. What he did say was that the hitch could not be dropped in from the top period. He has no issues with it being placed where I want it. In fact it has been done before and Henry has seen it. 

What I said to Gregg last night was that we do just what Gregg had suggested to me a week or so ago which was to cut any huck bolts that were in the way and to slide it in from the rear. 

The trailer does not need to be modified. 

 

 

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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6 minutes ago, Jack Mayer said:

There was no bed going on this truck. It was basically mounting the hitch and some other light work. No hauler body. Given the hitch manufacturer AND trailer manufacturer nixed the desired modifications, how is it that another shop is going to do it at "less cost". I doubt that cranes uses these hitches????  So I don't really understand the point.  Chris has a specific set of requirements that the component manufacturers will not buy into. I've noted the solution above. And that would be what I'd recommend in this case. 

That is completely made up Jack. I do not need modified trailers or hitches. I just need the hitch moved forward Period! There NEVER were any requests to any manufacture to modify ANYTHING. That never happened!

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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Just now, 13speed said:

That is completely made up Jack. I do not need modified trailers or hitches. I just need the hitch moved forward Period!

At this point that may be the case, and if so then I can see your frustration. But I know that your requests included working all those alternatives. I'm not sure why an ET Jr on top of the rails could not be used, but that would be up to Henry. That would give you a 50" hitch plate height, and keep you in an air ride hitch.  

Sliding the ET Senior hitch in across the suspension and other components is certainly possible. It involves a certain amount of removal/replacement of components that Gregg does not currently want to undertake. But I'm sure you will find a shop that can work with you, based on the other suggestions. At least at this point you know what has to be done to get the proper solution. 

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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Well Jack, that was my big question while reading all of this!  I know there is a lot of stuff between those rails that would not allow the hitch to be just slid in from the rear all the way in front of all the "stuff"!  But you're right, by removing and replacing that stuff, you could do it.  But I would imagine it might raise the cost of installation by about 3 times!  If not more?

Rocky & Sheri Rhoades
'01 Volvo 770
2016 DRV Mobile Suites, Houston
HERO Makers Ministry

 

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Rocky, it can certainly be done. And many alternatives to doing it were explored, as I noted. You do run the risk of affecting a component on a new truck. Which was why I liked the idea of a Jr. 

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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24 minutes ago, Jack Mayer said:

 

At this point that may be the case, and if so then I can see your frustration. But I know that your requests included working all those alternatives. I'm not sure why an ET Jr on top of the rails could not be used, but that would be up to Henry. That would give you a 50" hitch plate height, and keep you in an air ride hitch.  

Sliding the ET Senior hitch in across the suspension and other components is certainly possible. It involves a certain amount of removal/replacement of components that Gregg does not currently want to undertake. But I'm sure you will find a shop that can work with you, based on the other suggestions. At least at this point you know what has to be done to get the proper solution. 

That is fine Jack. I will find someone else to do the work. I do want to ask what would be the difference between doing a single on a truck or installing the hitch where I want it on my truck? I I was not asking for anything that is out of the ordinary. Nothing! Cut some bolts, slide the hitch in and install new bolts. It is exactly the same process Gregg does on trucks everyday so to suggest that it is something to difficult for him to do is ridiculous. He builds RV haulers, no? 

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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Try Herrin Welding in Texas. You might be able to bring in the support angles from the top, mount them to the frame, angle the plate in from the top or slide it in from the rear and then the ET will drop in from the top.

I don't think that should be too hard unless you have a LOT of suspension parts in the way. If you are singling the truck and moving the axle at the same time, the hitch could be put in before the axles are bolted back up.

2017 Kenworth T680
2015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites
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Children, children........go stand in the corner a minute and cool off a bit......

 

Let papa re-draw the ...."box"

 

So 13 you desire to have a compact lite and nimble truck that will allow you to stay a short as you can overall with large trailer AND have someone install the hitch without too much drama and $$$$

 

So...........try this what if.......

 

Your new truck is light, compact , nimble AND the ET Sr hitch is just slid into the frame rails WITHOUT any bolts being cut AND the truck will actually back the  trailer BETTER.......

 

How can I do this.........well that's why I get the Big $$$$??

 

So here are your new numbers,,,,,,with a 8,000 pin load your axle loads are:

 Steer axle = 8,710 lbs = 38.21%

Drive axle= 14,082 = 61.79%

Not bad numbers .....ya think 

And everyone can kiss and be friends again......

Oh by the way my magic is........just move the drive axle from 177" up to 141" and then the hitch is now 18" aft of the rear axle and has a better tail swing for backing into tight RV parks as well.

141" may seem short but Mobile home toters get a lot shorter.......AND you will still have enough frame to relocate the axle back to 177" if you ever desire.......

Now a bunch of you folks will throw gas on me about my short wheel base but all of you Smart car owners should recuse from comment because guys really are "short".........

 

Think about 141"........ lota  pickups do well short.......

Just re-box the....."box"......

 

Drive on........(fun with the......... box.....)

 

 

 

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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7 minutes ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

Try Herrin Welding in Texas. You might be able to bring in the support angles from the top, mount them to the frame, angle the plate in from the top or slide it in from the rear and then the ET will drop in from the top.

I don't think that should be too hard unless you have a LOT of suspension parts in the way. If you are singling the truck and moving the axle at the same time, the hitch could be put in before the axles are bolted back up.

I am not sure if there would be enough of a angle for it to slide in but it really won't matter because the spring hanger bolts have to be cut anyways because the hitch will be right in the middle of them. There are not many other things that would need to be moved. 

4 minutes ago, HERO Maker said:

I thought this was a truck to be ordered?

   It is.

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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1 hour ago, Dollytrolley said:

Children, children........go stand in the corner a minute and cool off a bit......

 

Let papa re-draw the ...."box"

 

So 13 you desire to have a compact lite and nimble truck that will allow you to stay a short as you can overall with large trailer AND have someone install the hitch without too much drama and $$$$

 

So...........try this what if.......

 

Your new truck is light, compact , nimble AND the ET Sr hitch is just slid into the frame rails WITHOUT any bolts being cut AND the truck will actually back the  trailer BETTER.......

 

How can I do this.........well that's why I get the Big $$$$??

 

So here are your new numbers,,,,,,with a 8,000 pin load your axle loads are:

 Steer axle = 8,710 lbs = 38.21%

Drive axle= 14,082 = 61.79%

Not bad numbers .....ya think 

And everyone can kiss and be friends again......

Oh by the way my magic is........just move the drive axle from 177" up to 141" and then the hitch is now 18" aft of the rear axle and has a better tail swing for backing into tight RV parks as well.

141" may seem short but Mobile home toters get a lot shorter.......AND you will still have enough frame to relocate the axle back to 177" if you ever desire.......

Now a bunch of you folks will throw gas on me about my short wheel base but all of you Smart car owners should recuse from comment because guys really are "short".........

 

Think about 141"........ lota  pickups do well short.......

Just re-box the....."box"......

 

Drive on........(fun with the......... box.....)

 

 

 

The shortest WB you can get on a VNR400 is 173" and if I had the axle moved forward that would be more expensive then just putting the hitch where I want to in the first place........I would only do the hitch behind the axle as a last resort. 

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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Um, no, the trucks were sold a year ago.  Don't forget the original questions:  Can the truck be built and hold under 12K in the front, and will a 13L engine put it over the tipping point?  It turned into a Weight Watchers thread because a 13K truck spec is a truck that has graduated from weight watchers.  A cornfed 16K is natural.

The four trucks were built and measured across a real scale for real dry numbers.  Look closer, you'll find that all are close to your spec, then that one is small engine, one is same spec big engine, and the last is similar spec that dropped out of Weight Watchers.  That'd be your three questions.  Add your numbers to them and it'll answer your questions.  Again, they are real world trucks, really sitting on the ground, somehow are 1000 lbs heavier than Volvo can do, and if you can make your payload fit them then you should have real good confidence that your truck spec will work.  Nothing worse than building a truck that won't scale then having to sell it and build another.  Seen it (and done it myself) many times.  Just trying to help avoid that.

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