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Ordering a new Volvo and could use some opinions


13speed

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27 minutes ago, 13speed said:

Sorry Sir, I did see your post. Sometimes posts in a very active thread like this can come so fast it can be hard to keep up. Hot Rod, rickeieio and you all said similar things in a short period of time and I just quoted one. I did however tell Henry that a few different people had suggested the idea in my email to him last night. I will post what he says when I hear from him. 

To be fair, you have been swamped with ideas. 

This may spark a new niche for the ET line, with a modular base.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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Good morning gentlemen, wow this is an active post!

First a bit of history, in ten years of ETs "existence" there was only one installation forward of an axle (on a singled truck) to solve a problem that this installation did not solve since the placement of the hitch did not have anything to do with the "problem"

I did not install it in that location, someone else did it, I am still puzzled how they did it, they definitely had to take the hitch apart, or the Volvo, or both.

The problem is space.

rTidojwl.png

Plate is too wide for the opening even at an angle.

AsL5rtQl.jpg

Without angles it's still too wide and now the sidewalls are an issue also.

aagfhchl.jpg

Yes as some pointed out a custom ET would go in there, narrower mounting plate, unequal angles, mounting holes in different location, etc., etc., More complex installation procedure probably in couple of stages, disassembling and re-assembling the hitch, maybe some Volvo  dis-assembly and re-assembly.

As I pointed out to Chris anything custom can be done (I've done a ton of it in my "career") but it raises the cost of the product and installation significantly, sometime very significantly.

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For general information and "complete education" for this forum I pointed one other issue to Chris, the overall length of the puller.

rhXHlmKl.jpg

With the hitch in this location you have a quite a bit "of truck" behind thew hitch, careful measurements need to be taken or established before proceeding to make sure there is clearance between the truck rear or the hauler body rear corners so that they will swing under the fifth in a corner and don't come in contact with front compartment on the fifth.

New Horizons with their relatively straight or slightly bent pinbox don't leave much swing room under there.

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Henry,

I'm pretty sure you can use something like an 8x4x1/2 angle with 4 or 5 stiffeners under it and match drill that angle after installing it with the holes that bolt the hitch to the bottom plate. That way the bottom plate can be made narrow enough to drop in from the top.

2017 Kenworth T680
2015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites
2016 Smart Prime

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2 minutes ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

Henry,

I'm pretty sure you can use something like an 8x4x1/2 angle with 4 or 5 stiffeners under it and match drill that angle after installing it with the holes that bolt the hitch to the bottom plate. That way the bottom plate can be made narrow enough to drop in from the top.

Absolutely, to any engineering problem there are a many solutions and this is another one, but again "custom is custom".

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Since this truck will be "born" as an rv hauler, why not just spec smaller bags on the rear suspension and use an aluminum commercial hitch?  

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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3 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Since this truck will be "born" as an rv hauler, why not just spec smaller bags on the rear suspension and use an aluminum commercial hitch?  

Well it is getting 20K bags and a 23K axel. I don't think it would have enough cushion as well as the commercial hitch will not have L-R head tilt. 

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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Quote

 

It can be done and it will have whatever spring rate you want.  You need only calculate the sprung weight.  As far as articulation... pg 25, 28 etc.

http://pioneerhdparts.com/pdf/hollandcatalog.pdf

I don't have articulation but am thinking if adding the Kompensator base

"There are No Experts, Do the Math!"

2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp  1850ft-lb  18spd  3.31  260"wb
SpaceCraft S-470
SKP #131740

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26 minutes ago, NoDirectionHome said:

It can be done and it will have whatever spring rate you want.  You need only calculate the sprung weight.  As far as articulation... pg 25, 28 etc.

http://pioneerhdparts.com/pdf/hollandcatalog.pdf

I don't have articulation but am thinking if adding the Kompensator base

That would take care of articulation but not the cushion part. I was told that in my case its not the frame that is the issue but the side walls that become a problem without the air hitch. 

Having to use a air hitch is the #1 biggest problem in my life right now!

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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7 minutes ago, 13speed said:

That would take care of articulation but not the cushion part. I was told that in my case its not the frame that is the issue but the side walls that become a problem without the air hitch. 

Having to use a air hitch is the #1 biggest problem in my life right now!

You are receiving good advice from Cole. I would NOT run a rigid hitch with any trailer other than a Spacecraft Semi, which is designed for a rigid hitch. That is just my two cents. I know people have done it, but I would not advise it.

I've heard no feedback on my "conjecture" that an ET Jr. on top of the frame rails would work. Yes?  No??  it would be "about" a 50-51" plate height if I remember correctly.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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8 minutes ago, Jack Mayer said:

You are receiving good advice from Cole. I would NOT run a rigid hitch with any trailer other than a Spacecraft Semi, which is designed for a rigid hitch. That is just my two cents. I know people have done it, but I would not advise it.

I've heard no feedback on my "conjecture" that an ET Jr. on top of the frame rails would work. Yes?  No??  it would be "about" a 50-51" plate height if I remember correctly.

Cole said the max I can be at to stay level is 49" we had just discussed this last week. I do really like the increased travel of the Super.

FYI, I did try to build a trailer with Marsha but lets just say that we did not see eye to eye on some things. Not only is Cole much easier to work with, my wife likes the interior of the NH product much, much better then the SC. I am also spending about 65K less with NH. In exchange I get the one headache of making a hitch work. 

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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I'm level at 48.5" on my new truck and have one hole set that I can go up (2"). So 50" ought to be level on a NH if you push it all the way up. With some degree of variation.   Just FYI.

Jack & Danielle Mayer #60376 Lifetime Member
Living on the road since 2000

PLEASE no PM's. Email me. jackdanmayer AT gmail
2016 DRV Houston 44' 5er (we still have it)
2022 New Horizons 43' 5er
2016 Itasca 27N 28' motorhome 
2019 Volvo 860, D13 455/1850, 236" wb, I-Shift, battery-based APU
No truck at the moment - we use one of our demo units
2016 smart Passion, piggyback on the truck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
See our website for info on New Horizons 5th wheels, HDTs as tow vehicles, communications on the road, and use of solar power
www.jackdanmayer.com
Principal in RVH Lifestyles. RVH-Lifestyles.com

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Quote

That would take care of articulation but not the cushion part.

I do not agree with the above statement, but that's just my point of view.  Secondarily, is the wall issue the articulation issue and perhaps Cole is conflating that without an air (articulating hitch), the walls will be the limiting factor?  Just curious exactly what his position is.
      

"There are No Experts, Do the Math!"

2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp  1850ft-lb  18spd  3.31  260"wb
SpaceCraft S-470
SKP #131740

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12 minutes ago, NoDirectionHome said:

I do not agree with the above statement, but that's just my point of view.  Secondarily, is the wall issue the articulation issue and perhaps Cole is conflating that without an air (articulating hitch), the walls will be the limiting factor?  Just curious exactly what his position is.
      

I am guessing both the articulation and the air bags contribute to keeping the trailer in good shape but I will ask him tomorrow.

 

53 minutes ago, Jack Mayer said:

I'm level at 48.5" on my new truck and have one hole set that I can go up (2"). So 50" ought to be level on a NH if you push it all the way up. With some degree of variation.   Just FYI.

I will mention it to Cole as well.

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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They are pretty picky on single axle air suspensions with high torque engines or you end up with some nasty frame lift under torque, which gets into the whole pinion angle thing under acceleration.  So it probably isn't worth the fight to get something custom.  Probably best to take what they offer, and curious, is it the single axle Blade susp?

It does look like a good application for NotEven's rocker pin idea on a custom trailer.  I'd bet XL Specialized sells it as a service assembly.  I had one for a couple of weeks on a Superstition trailer if you're in the Phoenix area.  I dunno, just another idea to kick around, but figure the hitch out before the truck order because a FWAL is definitely not cheap afterwards!

IMG_20140416_114123_761_zps9xwelpjl.jpg

 

 

IMG_20140416_114145_965_zpsotk5m6fq.jpg.

IMG_20140417_153907_508_zps5op1r9ta.jpg

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The weakest part of the ET design is the base plate that the actual hitch mounts to and the attaching angles!  That is why that flat plate is so thick!

All you have to do is redesign that part of the assembly with heavy wall Square or Rectangular tubing and weld in slugs so that you can through-bolt mount the part of the ET that encompasses the Hitch and airbag assemblies and not collapse the tubing!  This will be stronger than any single flange angle!  You can tune the height of your hitch with the dimensions of chosen tubing!

Im not sure of your given clearancances and your fabricator may have to weld your new fabricated base while it's in place between the frame rails.  Simple prime, paint and seal the assembly when it's completed then mount the hitch to your assembly!

This stuff isn't hard, it just takes time and money or both if you can't do this stuff on your own!

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9 hours ago, Scrap said:

They are pretty picky on single axle air suspensions with high torque engines or you end up with some nasty frame lift under torque, which gets into the whole pinion angle thing under acceleration.  So it probably isn't worth the fight to get something custom.  

This sounds like a job for KW AG230... "fly level with ..." oops sorry N/A on the Volvo truck :ph34r:

"Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. 

 

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ClampClownPete - the area between the rails close to diffs is often occupied by crossmembers, torque arms etc. -not having room for an assembly like an ET to fit... if it will fit Phoenix himself said it could be done ...

I would turn the ET upside down, attach a king pin where the "binkley head" is, and put it on the trailer, with the dampers installed in the right direction.  Then use a normal aluminum 5th wheel on the new order tractor so the weight of the ET is on the trailer.  So it is a complete vehicle leaving the factory with 12 and 21 axle ratings sans FET. With truck/tractor air and electric connections called out on the order for RV trailer convenience.  I would then hit my head on the ETI (ET Inverted) about 6 times ...

"Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. 

 

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Just for your information, the aluminum 5th wheel only saves 125 pounds.  It just looks great all polished up!!!
The bad news is, it's a $2000 option. (yeah, I have one)

"There are No Experts, Do the Math!"

2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp  1850ft-lb  18spd  3.31  260"wb
SpaceCraft S-470
SKP #131740

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Lots of interesting ideas guys but in the end I have to go with what ever NH says so that I have a warranty on my trailer. 

If someone who had the smarts and skills put in a little time they could definitely come up with something better. I am just a dumb truck driver and do not have the abilities to come up with something.

6 minutes ago, NoDirectionHome said:

Just for your information, the aluminum 5th wheel only saves 125 pounds.  It just looks great all polished up!!!
The bad news is, it's a $2000 option. (yeah, I have one)

I have one that came with my 630 and they are really cool. I wish I could use it. 

Chris, Tracey, Aria & Lola

2018 Volvo VNR 400, D13 I-Shift

2018 NH 48' Majestic

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50 minutes ago, noteven said:

ClampClownPete - the area between the rails close to diffs is often occupied by crossmembers, torque arms etc. -not having room for an assembly like an ET to fit... if it will fit Phoenix himself said it could be done ...

I would turn the ET upside down, attach a king pin where the "binkley head" is, and put it on the trailer, with the dampers installed in the right direction.  Then use a normal aluminum 5th wheel on the new order tractor so the weight of the ET is on the trailer.  So it is a complete vehicle leaving the factory with 12 and 21 axle ratings sans FET. With truck/tractor air and electric connections called out on the order for RV trailer convenience.  I would then hit my head on the ETI (ET Inverted) about 6 times ...

From reading the comments it would fit if slid in from the rear by removing things.  Honestly, a photo is worth a thousand words so a photo of one of their similar trucks showing where he wants the hitch to be would show what the "Restrictions" to that location would be.

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4 hours ago, NoDirectionHome said:

Just for your information, the aluminum 5th wheel only saves 125 pounds.

Ya but, then your Swamper won't hafta stay home to keep you within Weight Police limits...

"Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. 

 

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5 hours ago, CampClownPete said:

From reading the comments it would fit if slid in from the rear by removing things.  Honestly, a photo is worth a thousand words so a photo of one of their similar trucks showing where he wants the hitch to be would show what the "Restrictions" to that location would be.

The issue isn't removing or re-installing the items, the issue is what happens to the brand new warranty if this takes place.  Will Volvo stand behind a warranty on component areas that have been taken apart and reassembled?

So would you willingly void a 3yr 500,000-mile warranty for a hitch in the prime location?

Alie & Jim + 8 paws

2017 DRV Memphis 

BART- 1998 Volvo 610

Lil'ole 6cyl Cummins

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