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Rank these RV's for me


Flightar

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I'm going to purchase a Class A Motorhome in a couple of years when I retire. These are the one's I'm interested in and as part of my research I would appreciate you guys and gals ranking them for me with respect to overall quality, factory support,  fit and finish. I would also appreciate any additional comments you'd like to make as well. I have looked at each of the models and have poured (and will continue to do so) over anything and everything I can find but the opinions of seasoned vets can be valuable too.

Newmar, Canyon Star 3710

Tiffin, Open Road 36LA

Winnebago, Sightseer 36Z

Fleetwood, Bounder 35K

Forest River, Georgetown XL 369DS

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I don't feel it does any good at this point, too early in the process. Depending on which years you are looking at the quality changes. First thing is to be happy with the floor plan. If you are not happy with the floor plan forget it. If you are thinking new, you have no idea what the floor plan will be when you buy. If you are thinking used you have no idea as to which floor plan or model will be on the market.

Kee looking and reading but wait until you are ready to buy.

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If you don't plan to buy new in a few years then it is good to look at new ones now and find a couple you really like. Then when it's time to buy used you'll know just what year and make to zero in on.  It can work very well.

I'd look at Newmar Ventana rather than Canyon Star. It may seem expensive now but by the time you're ready to buy it might be in your price range.  We full-timed and traveled constantly in our Newmar for 8 years with no issues. It's a well-built, stable company in business for 50 years.

We don't agree with the suggestion to just find a floorplan you like.  You need to get a quality build and then choose the floorplan from what is offered within that build.  A good floorplan isn't good if it falls apart because of the build.  People can adjust to a floorplan if it's not something major.

Full-timed for 16 Years
Traveled 8 yr in a 2004 Newmar Dutch Star 40' Motorhome
and 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel

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Welcome to the Escapees forums. Happy to have you with us and we will do our best to help.

Keep in mind that this is purely a personal opinion, based on the reputations of the manufacturer's history and it also assumes that all of them are either new or in the exact same condition. I really do not consider the RV's you have as #3 & 4 as holding that order as I would insert a few others into the list, and perhaps a few others.

1) Tiffin, Open Road 36LA

2) Newmar, Canyon Star 3710

3) Winnebago, Sightseer 36Z

4) Holiday Rambler, Admiral

5) Jayco Precept

6) Fleetwood, Bounder 35K

7)  Forest River, Georgetown XL 369DS 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Research pre-owned Foretravels  http://motorhomesoftexas.com/   Another good research tool is to read the brand's owners forums  http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=forum

Jeff and Suzanne with Scout and Sydney, the Cocker Spaniel Sisters touring in Fawkes the 2012 Phoenix Cruiser 2400 Sprinter

 

"What happens in Vagueness, stays in Vagueness"

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I agree with SWharton.  Sure, it helps to get some idea of quality now but the RV industry as a whole seems to change every other day.  New companies coming in, older companies going out of business, other companies being acquired, new floor plans coming online, old floor plans getting the heave ho, etc., etc.  We have personally endured several of these changes and it isn't fun.

2012 F350 KR CC DRW w/ some stuff
2019 Arctic Fox 32-5M
Cindy and Tom, Kasey and Maggie (our Newfie and Berner)
Oh...I forgot the five kids.

 

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Regarding floor plan: How many people have made the mistake of a bed against the back wall was OK to find out how difficult it is to make up. Same thing with refrigerator/dining access and bathroom while slides are in. What they are looking at are all good builds, depending on year. Thinking you can "live" with that floor plan is a mistake. You slowly start regretting it.

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My suggestion is that you look at every coach you can, no matter the make, price, or condition. You are looking at the floorplan. Spend some time in it, "making" the bed, "washing" the dishes, "taking" a shower, etc. It won't take you very long to figure out which ones will work for you. While you are doing that, research which brands have the quality you want. The brands you mention are in different price categories when new, so you are not really comparing apples to apples. The quality varies with the initial price. so don't expect that a coach that has a list price of $100,000 is going to have the same quality as one that has a list price of $1,000,000. That million-dollar coach will be $100,000 before too long. Buy a used coach when you buy, but get the highest quality you can.

Jeff and Suzanne really know what they are talking about. They can tell their own story, but they chose high quality coaches. Like them, we chose a Foretravel for our coach and we've been really happy with it. Ours is older than theirs, so it didn't cost as much.

David Lininger, kb0zke
1993 Foretravel U300 40' (sold)
2022 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS

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Buying used does make some sense and I certainly will consider it. However, all five of the coaches I listed when new, have MSRP's around $190,000 and can be had for around $140,000 give or take a little bit...at least in my area of the country. Quality from what I have seen so far is more a factor of manufacturer and not so much price...at least in coaches that cost $225,000 and under.

Again, thanks for the replies and for the help. It will make my purchase decision easier.

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8 hours ago, fly2low said:

When I started a few years ago, I signed up for this

https://rv.org/

Read reviews for 6 months, then waited >12 months for the unit I wanted to show up on the market.  Worked for me.  YMMV

I very much agree with this post. The RV Consumer Group has done more to improve buyer education and manufacturer's quality than any other organization that I know of. I joined the group back in 1997 when we started to shop for a fulltime RV and even with many years of RV experience, the things I learned proved to be very valuable. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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We've also have been told to find the floor plan that we like.
And we spent at least five years (on and off) looking at Class A's.
We finally found a used diesel pusher that we really, really liked.
It had all the bells and whistles plus some.  
It just took a long time of searching to know that what we really like is out there.
I would not settle for less.

 

 

Lance-white-sands-500.jpg

~Rich

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Many years ago I read a book that included some great advice. Although the advice was meant for a particular situation, I've followed it in other areas, too. That advice was to find the absolute highest quality you could in whatever it is you are looking for, then find something that you can actually afford that is as close as possible to that standard.

Since you are looking at Class A motorhomes, what's at the very top of that list? Prevost? Try to find one and check it out. More realistically, look at the fit and finish. Go find a custom cabinet maker in your area and look at their best cabinets to see what to look for, then look at the motorhomes you are considering. Some people have described an RV as a rolling earthquake. You don't want cheap, flimsy stuff in your coach.

David Lininger, kb0zke
1993 Foretravel U300 40' (sold)
2022 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS

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11 hours ago, kb0zke said:

Many years ago I read a book that included some great advice. Although the advice was meant for a particular situation, I've followed it in other areas, too. That advice was to find the absolute highest quality you could in whatever it is you are looking for, then find something that you can actually afford that is as close as possible to that standard.

Since you are looking at Class A motorhomes, what's at the very top of that list? Prevost? Try to find one and check it out. More realistically, look at the fit and finish. Go find a custom cabinet maker in your area and look at their best cabinets to see what to look for, then look at the motorhomes you are considering. Some people have described an RV as a rolling earthquake. You don't want cheap, flimsy stuff in your coach.

I fully agree with this.  I knew the level of quality I wanted, and even though I could afford a new one of the quality I wanted, I could not get myself to write that check.  So I got a used one at a price I was willing to pay.

Everyone has their priorities.

Rich and Carol

2007 Dynamax DQ 340 XL

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6 hours ago, fly2low said:

I knew the level of quality I wanted, and even though I could afford a new one of the quality I wanted, I could not get myself to write that check. 

I think that these discussions overlook the priority that financial issues should hold, much too often. The fact is that there are successful fulltimers out there in nearly every type and quality of RV around if the owner does what it needed to keep them in condition. While I agree that quality is important, it can be over-emphasized too. We lived quite comfortably for nearly 12 years in a class-A that many of the RV community will tell you, was not suitable for fulltime. We lowered our standards from the original plan to meet our budget and still be able to get the new class-A Pam wanted to start our adventure with and yet leave debt free and still have a reserve fund to find a home once our fulltime adventure had to come to an end. As nice as it may be to travel in a diesel pusher, there are still many folks who live just as well and just as long in a (perish the thought!) gas powered motorhome. You can make adjustments and many do so successfully. Quality is important and I do agree that you need to consider it, but do not overrate what it means. All of life is made up of trade-offs so weigh your choices carefully.

Remember that the view from the campground is exactly the same from a Prevost or Newell as it is from a converted school bus!

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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1 hour ago, Kirk Wood said:

I think that these discussions overlook the priority that financial issues should hold, much too often. The fact is that there are successful fulltimers out there in nearly every type and quality of RV around if the owner does what it needed to keep them in condition. While I agree that quality is important, it can be over-emphasized too. We lived quite comfortably for nearly 12 years in a class-A that many of the RV community will tell you, was not suitable for fulltime. We lowered our standards from the original plan to meet our budget and still be able to get the new class-A Pam wanted to start our adventure with and yet leave debt free and still have a reserve fund to find a home once our fulltime adventure had to come to an end. As nice as it may be to travel in a diesel pusher, there are still many folks who live just as well and just as long in a (perish the thought!) gas powered motorhome. You can make adjustments and many do so successfully. Quality is important and I do agree that you need to consider it, but do not overrate what it means. All of life is made up of trade-offs so weigh your choices carefully.

Remember that the view from the campground is exactly the same from a Prevost or Newell as it is from a converted school bus!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the wisest pieces of advice I've ever heard on this Forum.

2012 F350 KR CC DRW w/ some stuff
2019 Arctic Fox 32-5M
Cindy and Tom, Kasey and Maggie (our Newfie and Berner)
Oh...I forgot the five kids.

 

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Spindrift, thank you for your post. This is exactly why I listed the specific coaches I did in my original post. I want the most for my money and not just the most bling...I don't want to completely break the budget, don't want to go over 37 feet and the DW really wants a new coach. I'm open to buying used but I don't want to go more than three or four years old if i do. I'm just not convinced that there are enough pluses in the entry level arena, to say that diesel is hands down the better choice over a high end gasser, when you consider the increased costs that go with it.

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3 hours ago, Flightar said:

I'm just not convinced that there are enough pluses in the entry level arena, to say that diesel is hands down the better choice over a high end gasser, when you consider the increased costs that go with it.

We wanted a new coach, didn't want payments on the road, and wanted to keep enough of the proceeds of our house sale to allow us to buy another home in the event that something happened to force us from the road or even if we just chose to stop constant travel. When it came time to buy our home on the road, we quickly discovered that we could not have all of those if we stuck to a diesel coach and so we bought a new, top of the line gas chassis coach. It is true that there are some clear advantages to the majority of diesel rigs(remember that they have their entry level coaches too) such as air ride and longer drivetrain life, but a new gas chassis should be relatively trouble free if properly cared for over at least 150,000 miles and probably more. In addition, the cost to replace an engine or transmission in a gasser is only about 25% that of the same equipment for a diesel rig and sometimes that does happen. 

With our slow pace of travel, in nearly 12 years on the road, we put on about 80k miles for the coach and more than 250k miles on three different towed vehicles. We did this debt free and as things turned out, retaining the nest egg was a sound choice as it allowed us to buy our present home-base for cash and remain debt free. There is no coach that rides quite like a diesel pusher with air ride but in reality, even the people who move pretty much constantly spend many more hours parked than they do out on the highway if this is your only home. If you drive an average of 6 hours of every day, you still live in a sitting coach for 18 hours of every day. In our case, we drove short days and spent long periods at many of our stops and then traveled all about that area with our tow vehicle. I would have loved to have had a diesel with air ride and I still have just a little bit of envy for those who can afford to own one but would absolutely not change the choice that we made to accept a high-quality gas coach and keep our nest egg healthy. If your budget will allow you to have the pusher and the nest egg, then I would agree that it is a nicer ride but I see it more like the choice between a Ford or a Lincoln to drive around the community. The Lincoln is far nicer to ride in, but the Ford will get you there just as quickly and for a much lower cost. If my budget were larger I'd own a Lincoln and a diesel pusher but neither one of those would have taken me anywhere that the vehicles we have owned could not. 

In our case, my wife faced a series of major medical issues that made it impossible to continue on the road after only 11+ years so we needed that landing point and quickly. The problems were/are such that a flat floor is very important and steps of any kind can be challenging at times. She can now manage our little travel trailer for periods of time, but it has a flat floor and only a short step up into it. Our need to find a landing point all came about in only a few months and was several years before our plan had called for, so advance planning turned out to have been a good choice for us. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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In comparing a gasser to a diesel pusher Kirk offered this analogy "I see it more like the choice between a Ford or a Lincoln to drive around the community. The Lincoln is far nicer to ride in, but the Ford will get you there just as quickly and for a much lower cost."

That is such a good insight that I felt a need to emphasize it.

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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I can't rank the specific units as requested by the op, but for me the points listed above are more significant than how those units rank.  When I went full time there were a lot of cow pies to step in.  I did a lot of research and then with care and luck seem to have missed them all.  I really feel like I'm being paid back for living a good life (well, mostly).

In my case, the first research was class A, 5th wheel, pull-behind.  For me it quickly resolved to 5th wheel.  The deal killer was I have pictures I took of feces layered on the inside of washer and even on the inside of the dryer!  I just can't live with putting my clothes in a machine where the previous user overloaded them with unemptied and unrinsed diapers.  People take wet diapers to the laundromat and just dry them - already to use again (brown stain in back, yellow stain in front).  I had to go to a 5th wheel trailer to avoid dealing with that the rest of my life.

Within 5th wheel units, I looked for the smallest one that would meet my needs.  Within that range, a floor plan that would work for me.  When I found the best combination of that it was a particular make, model and even year - and it was 10 years old.

I started looking at those and found they were really good quality, which I hadn't thought about, but was good news.  I found one 2,000 miles away, but it sold the day after it was posted and before I could even get there to look at it.  The next one was 120 miles away.  It was not only everything I wanted, the previous owner added wonderful options and then used it gently and took excellent care of it.  I offered 2/3 of their asking price, they took it and I drove away with it.

Wonderful benefits I learned after the fact:  It had a Splendide w/d combo - not for everyone, but perfect for me as it turns out.  I love having the deep freeze that sits on top of it in lieu of separate w & d.  It had a generator.  Not only has this been a lifesaver multiple times - it runs on propane and I don't have to mess with gasoline.  And if it sits for a year before I need it again, it will start on the first try.  It has a full cargo slide in the basement that extends out either side.  Something else I wouldn't have thought about, but now don't think could live without.  The A/C had been replaced with a larger heat-pump.  I've never needed the furnace.

Me advice mirrors that above - go spend time at shows or dealer lots, pretending that you live in the unit and think about things like, the thing you want weighs 100# and is in the middle of the basement behind 500# of stuff.  The slides are in and someone is ill and needs extended bathroom time or we need to prepare and eat 6 meals before the slides go back out.  The power fails and won't be back on for at least 72 hours, how do we deal with that - move or start the gen.  

I surely hope you get as lucky as I did and what you do decide on, turns out to be just perfect for you.  But take your time deciding to get the best decision possible.  Asking the experienced experts on here is a great start.  As your search narrows, check into the on-line forums about the make/model you are zeroing in on.

 

F-250 SCREW 4X4 Gas, 5th NuWa Premier 35FKTG, Full Time, Engineer Ret.

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Another thing you can do at a dealer that you can't at a show is ask to have the slides pulled in. Motorhomes generally will let you get from the front to the kitchen and bath that way, but many towables don't. Some do.

Why is this important? A couple of times now I've found it necessary to stop on the side of the road to use the restroom. In our no-slide MH that's not a problem. Walking back to a trailer wouldn't have been a problem, either, but deploying a slide on the street side would have been.

This situation doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. Something to at least think about.

David Lininger, kb0zke
1993 Foretravel U300 40' (sold)
2022 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS

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kb0zke, that was a big check for us. I don't know how many folks we have talked to over the years that only found what they could or couldn't do with the slides in after the purchase. In some instances it will make quite an expression on the sales person's mug! When we were looking for our fulltime rig, the first thing my wife would do was to check if Corelle plates would fit in the sink. Another priceless look. 

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We also took a Corelle plate to see if it would fit in the cupboard. You'd be surpeised at how shallow some cupboards are.

I use a lot of plastic shoe boxes to corral little things so I took some with me to see how they fit in cupboards. Being able to stack them only one a half high didn't make it. Being unable to fit two side by side might be OK. Having to turn them sideways to fit might be OK. 

Oh, and we took a tape and measured those spaces and took photos of the shoe boxes in various positions.

Only you can decide what measurements will work for you.

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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Some great input, especially about how to research and learn about different RV's. 

I'll share what we did, and if this helps you great, if not - also great:)!

As you start walking thru, around, under different Class A's. Both of you add to a list of 'Must Have's' and 'Nice to Have's. Also come up with a smaller subset of manufacturers/models/years that seem to fit what you both like. Create a simple spread sheet, and as you start your earnest shopping, take it with you and each grade a specific coach. Award one point for any item that the coach has, zero if it is not on the coach. Each of you also get up to 5 (We choose 5, but pick a number that you both feel is fair.), and allow up to 5 points marking for items that you feel are important to you. (For example, the DW wanted a large galley, and good size shower - so each of those items would be given 5 points. I wanted side radiator, and IFS - so 5 points each. (We had other items too, and both would use our 5 points on all 5 items.). When were returned home, I'd add both of our sheets together into the spread sheet with the name and make year of the coach. (And I added a comments area, for engine, miles, jake compression, color, etc.)

This way when you sit back after looking at several coaches and models and year - you have a document that helps you non emotionally compare coaches with each other. 

======

And a bit different, well maybe not different as I agree with Kirk's assessment that the reality of budget influence of coach choices is very real.  But what we did was;

>Choose a purchase budget price point. (We choose $150K for this, now 8-9 years ago. And we choose an amount below what we could have comfortably afforded to write a check for... The main reason was because we were not sure how long we'd want to do this. We both committed to 5 years of what I call Permanent Part Time Full Timing (We go out 6-8 months during the year.), so we did not want to overspend on something where we may both want out after 5 years.)

>Retain a separate budget line amount for post coach purchase fixes/updates/maintenance catch-up, etc. (We choose $25K for this amount.)

>We dropped years to remain within budget of purchase, and choose manufacturers/models/years that were of the highest quality we could find. (Now, that is a subjective comment. As what we choose as a 'hight quality' coach, someone else may consider a 'mid quality' coach.) After researching, our opinion was that a higher quality older coach, would be like a home with a good foundation - worthy of upgrading into what we wanted. (And, again 8-9 years ago now, I also preferred a engine with less of the smog stuff that came out in rapidly from say after 2006 and on. My sweet spot for years were 2004 and earlier, before the shift over to ULSD and EGR's. But the first series of engines between 2004-2006 smog change levels, were also on our list.)

>After about 18 months of visiting shows, super tent mega dealer RV shows, FMCA shows, and probably 20 visits to different dealers within a 300 mile range of our home - we came up with our combined 'Short List' of manufactures/models/years we both felt met our needs, and budget. 

>We then started our shopping in earnest. (We were kind of lucky timing wise, as this was about 12-16 months after the last big recession. And in Southern California area, and elsewhere, many owners had to get 'out from under' the monthly payments of owning a coach. So the number of higher end coaches available, and at about 20-30% under normal market conditions - allowed us to purchase more coach for our budgeted amount. Sorry for those that had over extended, and lucky for us that we had positioned ourselves to be able to pull our planned purchase year forward by about 2 years.)

-------

OK, that's my input. With one final thought. Go slow, don't get sucked into the emotions and buy one just to get out and going. And have fun along the way:)!

Best to you, and all,

Smitty

 

Be safe, have fun,

Smitty

04 CC Allure "RooII" - Our "E" ride for life!

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