Volvo ECM Reprogramming of Fleet Limits? What Values?

[RandyA]

Yesterday I drove the Volvo without a fiver in tow 500 miles down I-81 and I-40 on the way to the ECR with a stop-over at my Mom's house in Oak Ridge, TN.  While I have driven bobtail many times before, I have never done so for this distance.  For those that are not familiar with my truck it is a 2004 VNL670 with a Meritor 10 speed manual and a Volvo D12D engine rated at 465 HP and 1650 pound feet of torque.

For the first time, I noticed some obvious limits with the truck.  Now, don't attack me for this:  Once I hit the Tennessee Autobahn (just east of Kingsport on I-81) traffic was light and as usual, everything on the highway was running way over the 70 mph speed limit.  I learned that the absolute maximum speed I could attain was 74 mph at something around 1650 RPM.  That was it, period.  OK - I am not a speed demon, especially when pulling a fiver where I rarely allow myself to hit 70 (more like 65 max) but I want that fleet limit to come out. 

I have been told by a couple of folks knowledgeable about the D12D that my truck has "Load Based Speed Control" programmed into the ECM, meaning the turbo will only reach a preset limit of pressure unless the ECM senses you have a significant load - the bigger the load, the more the turbo will spin up in any gear below 8th.  After you get into 8th gear the turbo limits imposed by the ECM programming disappear.  I run the VMSpc on a netbook where I can see real time data that shows what the turbo pressure is (among other values).  I can even save the data over a defined time interval and graph it with other variables such as speed, EGR temperature, load, HP, Torque, fuel usage, etc. to see how one effects the other.  Actually, the ability to study engine performance goes far beyond what I have gotten into - but the data is there if I want to study it in depth.   I noted on this trip without a trailer, but 280 gallons of fuel and a golf cart on deck, that the turbo pressure would not increase beyond 12 psi until I got into 8th gear.  Once in 8th gear I can easily spin up over 30 psi when the pedal is to the metal.  According to the VMSpc this happens when load is 100% and I am at maximum torque and HP.  With the fiver in tow turbo pressure can reach as much as 18-20 psi in the lower gears while accelerating from a red light and not getting over 2000 rpm.  Not so bobtail.

I have also read that the D12D ECM can be reprogrammed to deliver up to 500 HP (mine is 465 HP and the VMSpc will compute and show that value).

Again, nothing I can absolutely validate, but my understanding is all of these limits are imposed by "fleet specs" in the interest of fuel economy and perhaps safety (speed limiting - tire ratings - common sense).  These limits are not something I can change even by entering my password into the DID control panel.  If my info is correct this can only be done at an authorized Volvo facility because they must connect to Volvo's mainframe first.  Again, how much is true and how much is hearsay is unknown to me.

So here are the questions:

Any problem in having these limits removed from the ECM?

Has anyone on the thread done this with their D12D?

What other items should I consider taking out of or changing in the ECM, for example, the coolant level engine shut down?  If I am going to pay an authorized Volvo facility to connect their equipment it would be good to have a list of what I might want to ask for.

Sample of VMSpc screen

[NoDirectionHome]

I don't have a Volvo or know the complete programming map, but one thing often forgotten that might limit you (upgrading) is radiator size.

[lappir]

Randy, 

I have a 2001 D12 in a 770. It had (and maybe still has) some limits despite my asking a Volvo dealer to remove all of them when I had the truck in to have the tilt wheel repaired. I do have a higher top speed, but some of that is going from Low Pro to Standard sidewall drive tires. That gave me a 5mph difference from the speedometer and the gps (before the change they were essentially the same. 

I notice my turbo really doesn't kick in until eight gear too. I have the Eaton Auto Shift. I would like it to come in a little earlier too, maybe 5th or at least 6th gear. It has never spooled up like I could get the 7.3 liter Ford V8 if I got lucky on a hill and no one was in front of me. I'm good setting the cruise at 72 mph. That seems to be the sweet spot. I will push the go pedal at the bottom of some hills sometimes because the cruise control doesn't seem to kick in until it's too late and the momentum is lost some times on the bigger hills.

I will be watching to see how you make out. Hope you are having fun at the ECR.

 

Rod 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jemstone]

When I bought my 2010 VNL 730 the top speed I could reach was 65mph.  The only way I could find to change the limits was to go to the Volvo dealer.  I don't believe anyone else has the soft ware to talk with a Volvo about speed limiting.

Does anyone know of a good shop in the Phoenix metro area where competent folks can service the truck?  The resource guide does not have much to offer and the dealership, while competent, is expensive.

[NoDirectionHome]

It appears you would need the Premium Tech Tool... pricey

https://volvotrucks.vg-emedia.com/ProductListing.aspx?GroupId=549

Maybe something for a group to share

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

An hour of tech time at the Volvo dealer or engine shop can set anything you want in the ECM. Why get the software?

[NoDirectionHome]

I think there's more value than the obvious.  It's not just reprogramming, it's also diagnostic access to all the ECM's.  I also doubt you'd ever get away with just one hour of labor.  Then there's the appointment wait (ask Shawn Patterson) and cost of diagnosis.  I'll admit, it's for sure a chunk of change.  That's why I thought maybe a group thing.  Hey what do I know?  I'm an Access Freightliner (DTNA Connect) guy.  

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Randy, the road speed is governed by the max RPM and final gear ratio.  I know that I run out of RPM at 1800 RPM or so.  Top end MPH is around 80 bobtail.  Something to remember is that most of our tires are speed limited to 75 anyway.

[RandyA]

1 hour ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

Randy, the road speed is governed by the max RPM and final gear ratio.  I know that I run out of RPM at 1800 RPM or so.  Top end MPH is around 80 bobtail.  Something to remember is that most of our tires are speed limited to 75 anyway.

Jim, I don't think that is the case for my truck.  Downhill or uphill 1650 is max in 10th.  It has got to be an ECM thing as fuel to the engine is shut off.  Have not tried to max out the RPM in 9th - be an interest try when I leave for Crossville, but I do have the ability to go as high as 2200 in 8th. I have my VMSpc set to alarm at 2000 and that is as high as I want to take it.  Yes, I am well aware of the speed limits set for out tires and have always followed them when towing.  But, my belief for most any tire with a speed rating is heat is the main enemy and short (very short) sojourners to a reasonably higher speed are not that risky baring the casing separating from centrafigal force.  Interesting though, the tires on my faux Ferrari are W rated for speeds in excess of 149 mph (168 mph).  I will be replacing them with Z speed rated tires this summer.  They are about 1/2 the price of W or Y rated tires and I'm no longer interested in driving it any where near 149 mph .

Still looking for a suggested list of what may be in the Volvo ECM that I may not want or need that a fleet operator would have included.  Also want to know more about the load based speed control stuff.  Unfortunately, my closest Volvo shop doesn't want to talk about that unless YOU know what you want them to do - tell them to take out what I don't need and all they do is stare at you then ask "what is it you don't need?"  They are not about to make a recommendation - probably because of company lawyers afraid of litigation if a change should result in engine damage or a wreck. I have lots of torque - no complaints there, but it would be nice to have a little more oomph on take off from a stop with the trailer attached..... especially if the ECM is holding it back only for improvements to the previous owner's fleet fuel mileage.  There has got to be a list with choices one can make somewhere - but what is on the list?

Where is Ray when you need him?

[RandyA]

8 hours ago, NoDirectionHome said:

I don't have a Volvo or know the complete programming map, but one thing often forgotten that might limit you (upgrading) is radiator size.

Yes, but I am not overly concerned about that since my max towed load is less than 1/2 the highest rating for the tractor .  Surely I have room to play with.

[Nigel]

A lot of shops have the software for changing the speed limiter in Ontario where I'm from as all commercial units over about 26000 lbs are limited to 105 km/hr (65 mph).  Gregg and Jack are both here at the rally and would probably be good guys to ask about the Volvo settings.

Nigel

[MrSeas]

When you get to the ECR ask Gregg Shields if he can share with you his list of all of the available parameters that are configurable. What parameters he changes and why.  If I remember correctly it numbers something like 1500 or so different parameters. Keep in mind some parameters are "linked" to others and therefore one change may affect a mother parameter that may also need to be changed. Sometimes asking for a "owner operator" spec sheet can get you into the " ball park" of the most popular parameter settings. Most folks probably start off by removing the engine shut down settings.  Then they may remove max speed settings.  You can also remove any passwords that may in use. Sometimes modifying  the cruise control speed deltas can enhance your driving style and your MPG. Depending on your motor and trans combo you can also change some additional settings like "start off gear selection" volvo makes it a bit tricky because they use different computers to control various functions.  The parameters the OP is asking about may not in fact be controlled by the engine ECM but the VECM which is a Volvo exclusive. its important to find a qualified technician that knows the "ins & outs" of these computers and how to make the changes correctly.  Most of what o have mentioned as been decussed many times.  A search may recover those discussions.

 

[RandyA]

13 hours ago, MrSeas said:

When you get to the ECR ask Gregg Shields if he can share with you his list of all of the available parameters that are configurable. <snip>  Most of what o have mentioned as been decussed many times.  A search may recover those discussions.

 

Excellent idea.  I did not even think about Greg being at the ECR. 

A search didn't turn up what I was hoping to find.  I think some of the links may have been lost when the thread boiler plate was changed last month.

Now, I may be wrong, but I have been led to believe that the EECM program can only be altered by an authorized Volvo shop.  Something about their programmer and software having to be linked into the Volvo mainframe where the VIN is stored.  Shop techs with the right equipment can read the program and diagnostic codes and alter or change a few more parameters than I can with my vehicle password, but they must be linked to do anything significant.  If that is not correct I have gotten some mythical info somewhere.  I do know you can buy the diagnostic tool for about $2K and then you must buy the software that NoDirectionHome referenced earlier.  The software is useless without the tool and the tool is limited without connecting to the Volvo mainframe.  But Greg should know all about that.....

I am aware of the many parameters one can encounter and how they can be linked - just not the Volvo coding.  I do some programming of PLC's and and micro-controllers along with specific older GM vehicle ECM's using C++ and an EPROM burner or appropriate interface.  Yes, the coding can be daunting and not in a language that is easily understandable.  I could do a lot of damage if I had access to the Volvo equipment without training .

[MrSeas]

Please let us know what Gregg says......thanks

[sclord2002]

My dealer refused to to disable several shut downs on my 06 D12D......yet they still wanted to charge me for hooking up to their computer.  We had a nice discussion over that and they removed that charge from the bill.  I am still stuck with several unwanted shut down parameters.   Charlie

[NoDirectionHome]

Randy,
Here are some of my parameters that I thought would be relevant to what you are looking for.  Remember i'm not a Volvo.  -Steve

ROAD SPEED LIMIT
CRUISE CONTROL SPEED LIMIT
NO LOW RANGE TORQUE PROTECT
NO IDLE SHUTDOWN CONFIG
ENGINE BRAKE W CRUISE ENABLED
NO ACCEL MANAGEMENT
DRIVELINE TORQUE PROTECTION ENABLED
 

[MrSeas]

39 minutes ago, sclord2002 said:

My dealer refused to to disable several shut downs on my 06 D12D......yet they still wanted to charge me for hooking up to their computer.  We had a nice discussion over that and they removed that charge from the bill.  I am still stuck with several unwanted shut down parameters.   Charlie

What was their "excuse".......

 

 

[RandyA]

On 4/24/2017 at 2:43 PM, MrSeas said:

Please let us know what Gregg says......thanks

I will.  I check-in at the rally tomorrow morning.  I am sure Gregg will be in high demand but I will pick his brain as soon as I can get his undivided attention - hopefully with a printed list.

Thanks to NoDirectionHome for the suggestions.  And, Charlie, why wouldn't they make the changes?  It is YOUR truck and consequently your engine that could be damaged.  To me that is different than a fleet driver who may have nothing invested in the truck.

[sclord2002]

The dealer said that they couldn't disable the shutdowns because of possible engine damage. They said Volvo wouldnt let them do it. Explaining to them that the truck was mine and not Volvos did no good. I have not been to a Volvo dealer anywhere since then.    Charlie

[MrSeas]

On 4/25/2017 at 3:40 PM, RandyA said:

I will.  I check-in at the rally tomorrow morning.  I am sure Gregg will be in high demand but I will pick his brain as soon as I can get his undivided attention - hopefully with a printed list.

Did you "pin" Gregg down and get your list?

[Av8r3400]

Yes!  Please share the list when you have it. 

[VegasFlyer]

Yes!  Enquiring Minds Would Like to Know......

[MrSeas]

So anything from Gregg on you questions concerning the programming parameters?

[Av8r3400]

On 4/27/2017 at 1:40 PM, VegasFlyer said:

Yes!  Enquiring Minds Would Like to Know......

Ditto...  

[peety3]

On 4/23/2017 at 8:09 PM, RandyA said:

Jim, I don't think that is the case for my truck.  Downhill or uphill 1650 is max in 10th.  It has got to be an ECM thing as fuel to the engine is shut off. 

Yep, I used to drive a fire truck with a 68mph governor on the Cummins 450-horse monster under the doghouse. When I got close to 68, it did everything except make things go beep: cut back/off the fuel, opened the turbo wastegate, engaged the fan clutch, engaged the AC compressor, engaged the air compressor. Funny side note: it was a relatively small ladder truck (75' three-section aerial ladder, single-rear-axle, just two outriggers so pre-positioning was critical), and they "shared" the power steering pump FOR THE LADDER. When you engaged the aerial PTO, the power steering hydraulics got diverted to the aerial systems, and vice versa. That's one way to skip an extra gadget.