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Fogged Windows Repair At Suncoast Design


Don M

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While this a negative review on Suncoast Designs. It should not be of much concern to any owners that do not have a painted exterior. It should be of special interest to Lazy Daze owners due to their unique construction. You will not find negative reviews on Suncoast on Facebook or their own web site because they delete them.

February, 2017 - We went to Hudson, FL to have Suncoast Designs clean five fogged windows in our Lazy Daze MH. Before we made an appointment we asked if they had worked on a Lazy Daze before. We were assured they had and it would be no problem. When we arrived they said they had done six Lazy Daze in the last few months.

First, the good thing - the windows are clean and clear. Except for one, which already has condensation in it.

When we checked in, the short conversation was very terse. No nice to meet you. We had to pull the information out of her. Where should we park? Where is the dump? What is the WiFi password? etc.

The first thing the next morning, two young men came to remove the valances and shades. Mission accomplished they left. Two others were outside cutting the caulk on the windows with razor blades. This went on for about 90 minutes. The windows barely budged. The original team returned to find out what was taking so long. They said they it usually took 5 to 10 minutes to remove a window. The original pair, led by Austin, went into a frenzied physical mode using pry bars to remove the windows. At this point, I did not know they were bending the window frames in the process. I would not know this until the windows were put back in and bulges in the frames showed where the pry bar was used.

After a window was removed, I could see why removal was difficult. The manufacturer put a bead of Locite sealant on the aluminum skin which bonded with the aluminum frame. Another rubber like sealant was used to prevent water from even getting to the Loctite. A belt and suspenders deal. One could argue it’s overkill. I am not so sure.

Before a pry bar was used, we should have appraised that they were experiencing difficulties they had never encountered before. And we should have been offered some choices. Such as:
1) Abandon the project.
2) Advise us the window frames would be bent if they continued.
3) That an additional charge would have to be made because of the extra time needed to remove the windows without bending them.

But they said nothing and we did not know the frames were being bent.

They sealed the window openings with plastic lined cardboard held on with painters tape. Remember the painters tape, this will come into play the next day.

The next day, they had us bring the rig inside to put the windows back in, as it was raining.
That’s when we heard a rubber mallet pounding the bent frames almost back into shape. They applied a bead caulk ONLY to the exterior. No caulk was put under the lip of the window between the frame and the aluminum skin. That means the caulk will have to be redone every 1/2 years due to deterioration from UV light.

This is when I find two places where the paint was lifted off where the painters tape that held the plastic lined cardboard on overnight. One of the men told us that they had told the manager/owner about this problem with the tape before. [Since the majority of rigs are fiberglass, this would not be problem]

They did not do a water test because it was raining. Overnight it continued to rain. One window, over a couch, was not sealed at the top. It leaked and wet the couch. They sealed it.

We were asked to sign a checklist that said the work had been done. I noted the GM had already signed it, even though he had not looked at our rig. In fact, we did not see him out of the building the time we were there.

Now the second experience - not at all pleasant! We go inside to pay and asked to speak to the manager. The customer rep, Taylor, says the General Manager has already seen the pictures where the paint was removed and they will take no responsibility for it. We think we should get some credit to have it repainted. She is determined that will not happen, but finally admits she is authorized to give us $100 off. After some arguing and then demanding to speak to manager/owner. He comes out of his office, walks down the hall past us and places himself behind the counter and proceeds to tell us off. He never introduced himself, but we found out he is the deceased owner’s son. 

The GM is arrogant. Nothing is their fault. It’s all Lazy Daze fault because they use cheap paint and are built on the cheap. Anyone that knows Lazy Daze, knows cheap is not a word that can describe any part of them. They have held a five-star rating for decades. The paint is a two part epoxy that lasts for over 20 years without fading. And get this, not only did the painters tape remove the cheap Lazy Daze paint, it also removed paint from the Hehr windows. Guess they use cheap paint also. 

Finally, he agrees to give us $150 off. Less than it will cost to have the paint touched up.

Suncoast states that we signed a document during check-in advising us that paint removal might occur. That is prima facie evidence that they knew of the problem but silently concealed it. Talk about Buyer Beware. No one would knowingly sign something that said they were giving Suncoast the right to damage their RV.

Our Lazy Daze has zero factory defects. The paint is perfect, not a single bubble.

I was always taught that the customer is always right, whether they are or not! Small businesses operate on the goodwill of customers. This guy was a total jerk and we would strongly recommend not using them, especially if you own a Lazy Daze or any other rig that is painted.

BTW, I met two other owners in for service who were there as come-backs. Suncoast Designs claims the best warranty in the business, but what good is a warranty when you are thousands of miles away and the window is leaking. 

We are still finding screws that were not put back in. Even though I loaned them a hex head tool to put them back in. We found one window screw hole that was stripped out.

In summary:
The window frames were bent and show the bumps.
Paint was lifted off the exterior and the window frames.
One window was not correctly sealed and is showing internal condensation.
One window was not externally sealed and rain soaked the couch.
At least a dozen screws were not replaced.
Nothing is the fault of Suncoast.

 

PIcture shows one place where the paint was lifted off by their afe painters tape. The upper place was caused by a pry bar.

Suncoast17 copy.JPG

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Interesting.  We had Suncoast Designers repair 10 windows in our 2007 RV last October.  The fifth wheel had a full body paint job in 2012, including the Hehr window frames.  No trouble removing any window as there was no caulking or adhesive like yours, just a rubber gasket between frame and side wall and standard caulking.  I remember the blue painters tape they used but it didn't bother or remove any on the paint on our fifth wheel.  I did talk with them when scheduling the work and again when they started about the possibility of chipping the paint when removing the windows but there was very little damage.  They did warn us about 2 large windows with small pivoting openings on the bottom that had 1/4" plastic seals that were removed to remove the large windows for repair.  This plastic seal was reused and a lot of paint was chipped off when it was removed and reinstalled.  No missing screws and all 10 windows remain clean and clear.  I thought the crew that removed and reinstalled the windows were just very young kids with no special skills and were not very impressive technically or with customer skills.  One window metal bar used to open and close the window wasn't glued onto the glass right and it feels like it will pull off when opening the window so they sent us a tube of whatever they use so I can repair it, or we can stop next year if we return to the Hudson area.  We had no trouble with the rest of the staff but didn't have the troubles you experienced.        Greg

Greg & Judy Bahnmiller
Class of 2007
2014 F350
2007 HitchHiker Champagne

Both sold 2/19, settled in Foley, AL after 12 years on the road

http://bahnmilleradventure.blogspot.com/

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On 4/1/2017 at 8:38 PM, Big Greg said:

Interesting.  We had Suncoast Designers repair 10 windows in our 2007 RV last October.  The fifth wheel had a full body paint job in 2012, including the Hehr window frames.  No trouble removing any window as there was no caulking or adhesive like yours, just a rubber gasket between frame and side wall and standard caulking.  I remember the blue painters tape they used but it didn't bother or remove any on the paint on our fifth wheel.  I did talk with them when scheduling the work and again when they started about the possibility of chipping the paint when removing the windows but there was very little damage.  They did warn us about 2 large windows with small pivoting openings on the bottom that had 1/4" plastic seals that were removed to remove the large windows for repair.  This plastic seal was reused and a lot of paint was chipped off when it was removed and reinstalled.  No missing screws and all 10 windows remain clean and clear.  I thought the crew that removed and reinstalled the windows were just very young kids with no special skills and were not very impressive technically or with customer skills.  One window metal bar used to open and close the window wasn't glued onto the glass right and it feels like it will pull off when opening the window so they sent us a tube of whatever they use so I can repair it, or we can stop next year if we return to the Hudson area.  We had no trouble with the rest of the staff but didn't have the troubles you experienced.        Greg

1

It should not make a difference, but it's now green tape. They knew it could remove paint because it was in a waiver form you sign at checkin. My bad for not carefully reading the entire form. Perhaps only when the tape is wet does it react? Perhaps it only reacts with certain paint. Lazy Daze uses a two-part 'epoxy' paint.

Right, young kids, no special skills. The team lead has been there six months.

 

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Hi Don, I doubt the water had anything to do with the tape as it was raining while we were there too.  I had a devil of a time backing the fifth wheel into their shop one day.  Our HitchHiker was painted with automotive paint then 3 coats of clear coat.      Greg

Greg & Judy Bahnmiller
Class of 2007
2014 F350
2007 HitchHiker Champagne

Both sold 2/19, settled in Foley, AL after 12 years on the road

http://bahnmilleradventure.blogspot.com/

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Don,

I would have thought that Lazy Daze would be using a catalized polyurethane paint but either that or an epoxy should never come off even with duct tape on it. It looks like your substrate was not prepared correctly with enough tooth to hold the paint or possibly had some contamination under the paint.

The dings and screws being left out are a different issue but if the people building them are anything like the skilled Amish Craftsmen that built our DRV, they never met a screw they couldn't over tighten or snap the head off of it.

2017 Kenworth T680
2015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites
2016 Smart Prime

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On 4/3/2017 at 11:59 AM, GeorgiaHybrid said:

an epoxy should never come off even with duct tape on it. It looks like your substrate was not prepared correctly with enough tooth to hold the paint or possibly had some contamination under the paint.

 

I agree. This has NEVER been an issue with Lazy Daze. The paint is top drawer and the prep is also. Stop and talk to an owner sometime. Examine the paint, even on a 10 year old rig.

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Don,

I agree that it shouldn't have come off. What you misunderstood is that if put on correctly, you need a grinder to take off epoxy paint, it will not flake off like your picture shows. The problem is with the paint and the application of the paint, not the tape that was used to protect it when your windows were fixed. I wouldn't be talking to Suncoast about the paint issue, I would be talking to Lazy Daze

2017 Kenworth T680
2015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites
2016 Smart Prime

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  • 1 month later...

Quite tardy on posting this, but we used RV Glass Solutions Phoenix location to defogged a window. Very pleased with their work. They spent 4 hours on one window. Suncoast spent the same amount of time on five windows.

Their main location is in Coburg, OR.

 

PS GeoriaHybrid, The rig is 10 years old. No issues with paint. None. Until Suncoast.

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