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Deadly RV Accident Because of Blowout!!


coachmac9

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9 hours ago, Tireman9 said:

Lot of valid comments on what to do if/when a tire fails. I note the claim that a tire "blow out" came from the State Police. I would caution people to jump to the conclusion that the investigating troopers have a working knowledge of tire failure analysis.

The fact that the tire is damaged after the accident is not in dispute but why it is damaged is a question that can take hours of detailed inspection and possibly chemical and certainly microscopic examination.

Having taught tire failure inspection and analysis to hundreds of engineers as well as the engineers at DOT Office of Defect Investigation, I can assure you that this is a very specialized topic and many times years of experience is needed before we can have a high degree of confidence on why any particular tire failed.

I have already read where some are claiming the tire was "defective" but when I asked for details or pictures no information was offered to support the claim.

I have contacted the TV station mentioned in the first psot and asked for contact information at the State Police where the responsibility for a thorough investigation currently resides. If I receive any facts I will report back here.

When I read the original post I immediately thought of you and your tire blog. Nothing better than a tire  engineer to set things straight.

I have looked to this pdf-  Crashforensics.com as an excellent self-education source for tire care and use for many years.

I

 

 

2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.  John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961

 

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Very sad event- We all need to do what we can to lower the risk while driving. I believe everyone should have a tire pressure monitor.

Two years ago- I put 4 new tires on a 5th wheel-had 400 mile on them, While on a multi day trip, I checked air pressure at 7:30 am before pulling out of camp, The wife needed a bathroom break 45 minutes later, I said REALLY! stopped at rest area did a walk around while she used bath to find one of my new tires at 15 psi!! A tire pressure monitor would have warned me. I had a easy day because of luck.

I now have a class a dp- 1st mod- tpms.

I can also say- in a accident I would be a lot safer in my Ford f-250 than almost any class a. But I love my new Berkshire 390bh, so I do what I can to lower risk, 

1. maintenance- tires ,breaks, suspension.

2, control speed and increase following distance.

3. Don't rush the trip, don't push if tired. 

Be safe everyone,your life may depend on it.

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12 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

When I read the original post I immediately thought of you and your tire blog. Nothing better than a tire  engineer to set things straight.

I have looked to this pdf-  Crashforensics.com as an excellent self-education source for tire care and use for many years.

I

 

Ray,  Thanks for the link.  I may use that when someone decides that simply because they have been driving for 30+ years and bought a lot of tires, they know more about Forensic Analysis than actual tire engineers do so they choose to accept the info in my blog.

Will U be at FMCA in Indy?  If so stop in one of my seminars.

Check out my Blog www.RVTireSafety.NET

 

I serve on Tech Advisory board of FMCA as their Tire Expert.

Give three different seminars on tires at RV events and I also give three seminars on Genealogy too.

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12 hours ago, Tireman9 said:

Ray,  Thanks for the link.  I may use that when someone decides that simply because they have been driving for 30+ years and bought a lot of tires, they know more about Forensic Analysis than actual tire engineers do so they choose to accept the info in my blog.

Will U be at FMCA in Indy?  If so stop in one of my seminars.

Yes, we already have a reservation. Looking forward to meeting you. 

 

2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.  John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961

 

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On 3/27/2017 at 2:45 PM, 2gypsies said:

 

Unless you've had a blowout at highway speeds I don't think any of us can determine how it actually feels and if we could bring the RV to a safe stop.  Blowouts happen in a second. Our reflexes aren't that fast in a situation such as this.   Be safe out there and do all you can to help prevent such a event!

We had an inner rear tire blow out last year driving on the interstate at 65mph.  Heard a loud bang, but absolutely nothing else.  No sway, swerve or anything.  We did a gradual slowdown and pulled off to the shoulder.  At first, just by looking at the blown tire, one could not visually tell that it was flat.  It did not come off the rim in any fashion, which probably accounted for the absence of any adverse control issues.  However, the sidewall looked like it had been hit with a 12 ga shotgun, just a huge hole in the sidewall, no split or tear, just the hole.

 

When we purchased our current RV, we had the Tyron system installed on the front tires as a safety precaution.  I am attaching a photo of the blown tire. Well, I was going to, but I guess the file size was too large.  It was 3 years old with approx 5000 miles on it.

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On 4/11/2017 at 4:42 PM, rcflyerrv said:

We had an inner rear tire blow out last year driving on the interstate at 65mph.  Heard a loud bang, but absolutely nothing else.  No sway, swerve or anything.  We did a gradual slowdown and pulled off to the shoulder.  At first, just by looking at the blown tire, one could not visually tell that it was flat.  It did not come off the rim in any fashion, which probably accounted for the absence of any adverse control issues.  However, the sidewall looked like it had been hit with a 12 ga shotgun, just a huge hole in the sidewall, no split or tear, just the hole.

 

When we purchased our current RV, we had the Tyron system installed on the front tires as a safety precaution.  I am attaching a photo of the blown tire. Well, I was going to, but I guess the file size was too large.  It was 3 years old with approx 5000 miles on it.

To  satisfy my curiosity, were you running tire pressure listed on the federal tire sticker in your MH or going by a load/inflation chart?

 

2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.  John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961

 

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On 4/6/2017 at 1:14 PM, Tireman9 said:

I have contacted the TV station mentioned in the first psot and asked for contact information at the State Police where the responsibility for a thorough investigation currently resides. If I receive any facts I will report back here.

Are you an accident investigator or reconstructionist? Employeed by some law enforcement agency? Not that either one really matter. The trooper/officer working a fatal accident is not going to share info with some totally uninvolved stranger that claims to be an engineer. There are some very obvious signs that can indicate tire failure, that an accident investigator can figure out that don't require an engineer. 

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Tires are critical. We have TPMs on the 5th wheel and on the front tires of the TV. regular tire maint. Do not exceed the speed rating on the Rv tires. Use quality ti res. We had a tire failure on the inside dually a couple of years ago and did not know it happened.

 

We see far to many tire failures  along the road most it seems with TT's and 5th wheels .We also see a lot of speeding

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

SKP 100137. North Ridgeville, Ohio in the summer, sort of and where ever it is warm in the winter.

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  • 3 weeks later...

As a young man, even to this day, motorcycle tire pressure was critical and each time I rode I would kneel at the alter of the tire Gods and check air pressure, cold.  My new bike has an internal pressure monitor but it lacks the judgement only I and the guage can dispense.  My 5th wheel gets the same treatment prior to launch, going to tire church, kneeling and checking those pressures  can  and will keep you out of the afterlife. Look the tires over as you genuflect along with the air guage, you will be a happy man.  I also use a laser heat gun, Harbor Freight, which tells me if I am building up excessive heat not only on the tire but bearings etc., as well.  Takes a little time but heck, I am retired.

Phil, Carol, Ariel, Grey Lady, SKP# 93039

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We do have quality  Goodyear G614s on our 5th wheel with a GVW of 16K. We also use the TST tire monitoring system. Nothing can prevent a "blowout" defined as a "sudden and catastrophic failure" Boom and it is gone. The TST can detect a loss of pressure allowing advance warning of tire failure giving the driver a chance to slow, pull over or get to a safe place. Many of what we call blowouts are really the result of a undetected  loss of PSI and once the PSI is low enough the tire will come off the rim  and come apart. We saw that very thing happen right in front of us going to Florida in 2016. We observed  a tire smoking as the unit went around us and the tire came apart a couple of hundred feet in front of us .Tire and unit parts flew everywhere including a chunk of tire that hit our truck windshield.  The tire monitoring system IMO would have given the driver time to react to the tire failure.

We saw many  RV's  along the road  going and coming to  Florida this year the majority of them TT's and 5th wheels and many of then traveling at high speeds.Most RV drivers have no clue as to the speed rating of their tires or that they even have one.

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

SKP 100137. North Ridgeville, Ohio in the summer, sort of and where ever it is warm in the winter.

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Before I launch at the end of summer my 5W is getting a whole new set of tires. It's been sitting on some old crappy tires just because I knew it was going to be sitting for a while. The tires are definitely over-rated for the size of the camper but they match the rims, hubs and axles and are 10 ply 3000lb-rated truck tires. I still don't ever plan on going over 65mph (I don't even do over that in my truck alone when I'm road-tripping).

I do want to invest in a TPMS so any recommendations are welcome.

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On 4/11/2017 at 4:42 PM, rcflyerrv said:

We had an inner rear tire blow out last year driving on the interstate at 65mph.  Heard a loud bang, but absolutely nothing else.  No sway, swerve or anything.  We did a gradual slowdown and pulled off to the shoulder.  At first, just by looking at the blown tire, one could not visually tell that it was flat.  It did not come off the rim in any fashion, which probably accounted for the absence of any adverse control issues.  However, the sidewall looked like it had been hit with a 12 ga shotgun, just a huge hole in the sidewall, no split or tear, just the hole.

 

When we purchased our current RV, we had the Tyron system installed on the front tires as a safety precaution.  I am attaching a photo of the blown tire. Well, I was going to, but I guess the file size was too large.  It was 3 years old with approx 5000 miles on it.

From the info posted can I conclude that you were not running TPMS? If it was in fact a Run Low Flex Failure the reason for the tire failure was some air leak. Puncture? Leaking valve? Only a detailed examination, which can take hours, may help identify the evidence needed to reach a conclusion based on evidence rather than just a wild guess. In my experience there are only a handful of experienced Forensic Tire Engineers in the US. There are however hundreds of ambulance chasers ready to yell "Defective Tire" while never being able to identify the specific "defect".

All we know from the news stories is that there was an accident and there was a shredded tire on the front of the RV when the dust had settled.

I have written extensively in my blog, on the steps that can be taken to reduce the potential for a tire failure while running down the road to less than 1%. However it is always much easier to simply shout "Blowout" and "Defective tire" than to take the time with preventive maintenance.

Check out my Blog www.RVTireSafety.NET

 

I serve on Tech Advisory board of FMCA as their Tire Expert.

Give three different seminars on tires at RV events and I also give three seminars on Genealogy too.

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On 4/12/2017 at 7:05 PM, Big5er said:

Are you an accident investigator or reconstructionist? Employeed by some law enforcement agency? Not that either one really matter. The trooper/officer working a fatal accident is not going to share info with some totally uninvolved stranger that claims to be an engineer. There are some very obvious signs that can indicate tire failure, that an accident investigator can figure out that don't require an engineer. 

I have conducted or been directly involved in examination of tens of thousands of failed tires in my 40 years as a tire design and quality engineer. I have taught a class at DOT in their Office of Defect Investigation in Washington DC and yes I have worked as a witness in a fatal car accident where tires were blamed as a cause by State Police but the facts did not support their claim.

You are correct that the trooper is not going to give me detailed info but I wonder who if any of the officers involved has ever received any training in tire engineering. It's one thing to say the tire failed but completely different to pronounce the reason why the failure occurred and be able to point to the physical evidence to support the claim. How many troopers have studied metallurgy and fatigue failure or have traiining in rubber chemistry? I would guess the number approaches zero.

I was hoping to at least hear an answer to why they believed there was a RLOF i.e. Blowout but no information has been offered. The TV news people don't really care as they can't make a headline of 'Film at 11".

Check out my Blog www.RVTireSafety.NET

 

I serve on Tech Advisory board of FMCA as their Tire Expert.

Give three different seminars on tires at RV events and I also give three seminars on Genealogy too.

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1 hour ago, DuneElliot said:

Before I launch at the end of summer my 5W is getting a whole new set of tires. It's been sitting on some old crappy tires just because I knew it was going to be sitting for a while. The tires are definitely over-rated for the size of the camper but they match the rims, hubs and axles and are 10 ply 3000lb-rated truck tires. I still don't ever plan on going over 65mph (I don't even do over that in my truck alone when I'm road-tripping).

I do want to invest in a TPMS so any recommendations are welcome.

I suggest a TPMS that

1. Allows you to easily set the low and high pressure warning level and doesn't simply use the pressure in the tire when it is first installed to set its own levels of High and low warning.

2. Offers "early" and "rapid" warning so you can get notice right away (few seconds) of a pressure loss down from the higher hot tire pressure. If the only warning is after you have dropped 20% from your cold pressure it may already be too late for you to take appropriate action.

3. Has user replaceable sensor batteries

4. Has a long term (Lifetime) warranty

 

FYI I have a number of posts on my blog on TPMS

Check out my Blog www.RVTireSafety.NET

 

I serve on Tech Advisory board of FMCA as their Tire Expert.

Give three different seminars on tires at RV events and I also give three seminars on Genealogy too.

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On 4/28/2017 at 3:18 PM, DuneElliot said:

Thank you. Will keep those things in mind and check out the recommendation.

BTW, some air pressure gauges have a variance in spec of + or - 4%.  The same likely holds true for TPMS sensors.  I suggest you get an air gauge you trust, set your tires with that gauge to 1 psi above your desired rate, then install the sensor.  The 1 psi above is to compensate for lost air as you screw the sensor to the stem.  

Then, once your sensor readings are showing on the display, write down the numbers.  That way you can add or remove air until the display shows the same psi as when you first installed the sensor using your known, good gauge, without having to keep that gauge in hand.   

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1 hour ago, remoandiris said:

BTW, some air pressure gauges have a variance in spec of + or - 4%.  The same likely holds true for TPMS sensors.  I suggest you get an air gauge you trust, set your tires with that gauge to 1 psi above your desired rate, then install the sensor.  The 1 psi above is to compensate for lost air as you screw the sensor to the stem.  

Then, once your sensor readings are showing on the display, write down the numbers.  That way you can add or remove air until the display shows the same psi as when you first installed the sensor using your known, good gauge, without having to keep that gauge in hand.   

At many events where I am giving seminars I offer to check calibration of hand pressure gauges. I have written about the rate of errors on my blog ( 8% to 15% are off by more than 5 psi)  but in the end I have found that my Accutire Digital is accurate to +/- 0.5 psi when checked against an ISO certified laboratory gauge. That is what I use as my "Master gauge as part of my "Gauge System"

Check out my Blog www.RVTireSafety.NET

 

I serve on Tech Advisory board of FMCA as their Tire Expert.

Give three different seminars on tires at RV events and I also give three seminars on Genealogy too.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/30/2017 at 10:42 AM, remoandiris said:

I may have to get one of those.  Half a pound either way is something I would not worry about.

Any particular model/model # of Accutire gauge?

I bought model M4021B from Accutire for my "Master" gauge.  I have a blog post specifically on Tire Gauge System on April 3 this year.

Check out my Blog www.RVTireSafety.NET

 

I serve on Tech Advisory board of FMCA as their Tire Expert.

Give three different seminars on tires at RV events and I also give three seminars on Genealogy too.

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1 hour ago, freestoneangler said:

Sad, tragic story... thanks for the reminder.  My simple takeaway is that the cost of high quality tires is trivial when considering what they may help avoid.

Correct but it is important to remember that even brand new tires from one of the top tier tire companies can fail within 30 min of leaving the tire dealership if there is a moderate to significant air leak.  Use of a TPMS can probably alert the driver in advance of failure for a vast majority of the times a tire is going to fail.

Check out my Blog www.RVTireSafety.NET

 

I serve on Tech Advisory board of FMCA as their Tire Expert.

Give three different seminars on tires at RV events and I also give three seminars on Genealogy too.

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