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Just talked to State police on CDL requirements


forxlr8n

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Well, after participating in this discussion I lost my confidence in not needing a CDL.  I went to the AZ Motor Vehicle Department's Glendale location today and talked with the licensing supervisor.  Essentially, one can drive anything legal for highway use with a basic operator's license as long as it's solely for personal, non commercial use.  A commercial license is necessary only when one is receiving compensation in some form.  An unaltered class 8 driven as an RV tow vehicle would not require a CDL of the driver.  The supervisor said that the truck towing a 5th wheel would be considered part of a motor home.  Design is not an issue.  Vehicle use is the determiner.  

 

John McLaughlin

2010 Volvo 730, D13, I-shift, singled and decked

2014 Lifestyle 38' Fifth Wheel

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7 minutes ago, Jemstone said:

Well, after participating in this discussion I lost my confidence in not needing a CDL.  I went to the AZ Motor Vehicle Department's Glendale location today and talked with the licensing supervisor.  Essentially, one can drive anything legal for highway use with a basic operator's license as long as it's solely for personal, non commercial use.  A commercial license is necessary only when one is receiving compensation in some form.  An unaltered class 8 driven as an RV tow vehicle would not require a CDL of the driver.  The supervisor said that the truck towing a 5th wheel would be considered part of a motor home.  Design is not an issue.  Vehicle use is the determiner.  

 

There is an inherent danger with seeking opinions or interpretations of published laws, like you have done.

You can shop people in any DMV or even a law enforcement agency and get varied interpretations, the problem is that those opinions won't do you much good when you are sitting on the side of the road after being stopped by a LEO who does not share that opinion.  Or in a courtroom, before a judge who could not give a rip what a supervisor from DMV said.

The Arizona law is, as published, not even that gray or contradictory and it does not look good for a non CDL driver to be driving an HDT registered in Arizona, pulling an RV.

In a lot of topics I will post "In My Opinion", this is not one of those times.  Good Luck!!

John

Southern Nevada

2008 Volvo 780, D13, I-Shift

2017 Keystone Fuzion 420 Toyhauler 

2017 Can-Am Maverick X3-RS

 

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I appreciate the concern about my not having a CDL, but I'm willing to take my chances.  I might not in another state, but this is Arizona.  I spent much of my career working in the criminal justice system - probation and later in special programs of the Arizona Supreme Court.  I don't know any officer who would want to cite me for an inappropriate license, knowing he or she would probably have to spend an afternoon, normally off duty, sitting in a Justice of the Peace Court waiting to argue with my lawyer in front of the JP, and realizing that he/she might lose the case if the JP decides the truck qualifies as a private RV tow vehicle.  Losing the case is not good for the ticketing officer, as he/she will probably require overtime for the court testimony, overtime that's always in short supply.  Receiving overtime for a questionable citation is a poor way to impress one's sergeant.

I should also say that appearing in an Arizona JP Court without a lawyer is taken as an admission of guilt by some JPs.  At the least they have no interest in hearing your story if you are not represented by an attorney.  This is especially true in the Phoenix metro area.  

John McLaughlin

2010 Volvo 730, D13, I-shift, singled and decked

2014 Lifestyle 38' Fifth Wheel

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In the extensive time I spent with the State of Maryland trying to get a HDT registered as an RV, I talked to so many clerks and agents with conflicting stories that I finally bit the bullet and climbed the administrative structure until I wound up on a first name basis with the Assistant Director of The Department of Transportation.

What I learned is that DOTs are very much siloed in their operation.  The Commercial Enforcement folks know the commercial code cold.  Don't even try to second guess a commercial enforcement guy like Big5er because he know the commercial code.  But the commercial code has nothing about RVs.  

Likewise, the auto  enforcement guys know their part of the code.  They know cars and licenses but little if anything about RVs or other specialty vehicles.  Did you know that without a special waver, a hearse need to be licensed as a truck because of the ratio of floor space to seats?  Few clerks at the licensing counter do.

So information is usually whatever the person you are talking to has heard, not read.  So unless you are talking to the person responsible for the codes and regulations, or reading the printed words, don't trust what you hear.

As for ignoring the need of a CDL if you vehicle is not exempted from the need, not having one when stopped is not a trivial state code violation, it is a Federal law you broke.  Last guy I knew who screwed up and arrived at the California Border with his recently purchased class 8 truck without a CDL, was over $6K in fines and the troopers were still writing tickets.

Ignore at your risk.

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18 hours ago, Jemstone said:

I I don't know any officer who would want to cite me for an inappropriate license, knowing he or she would probably have to spend an afternoon, normally off duty, sitting in a Justice of the Peace Court waiting to argue with my lawyer in front of the JP, and realizing that he/she might lose the case if the JP decides the truck qualifies as a private RV tow vehicle.  Losing the case is not good for the ticketing officer, as he/she will probably require overtime for the court testimony, overtime that's always in short supply.  Receiving overtime for a questionable citation is a poor way to impress one's sergeant.

If he bothered to write the citation, then he is fairly sure he can win that case in court...or else he wouldn't have written it. We don't like losing...and the easiest way to do that is to write good tickets. 
And as far as OT goes, you gotta love it. I'll take all they give me, and I don't need to impress my Sergeant in the least bit to get some. Secondly, it isn't a matter of right or wrong with a jury, they do what they want anyway. (I had one idiot hold out for 6 hours on a dump truck driving the wrong way on a freeway service road. He felt that since there wasn't a sign directly in front of the driveway the dumptruck came out of that maybe he didn't know it was a one way service road.)  And in some cases so does the JP, after all it is HIS court. I don't know of a Sergeant that isn't aware of that and most supervisors couldn't care less if you win or lose in JP court. In 31 years none of my Sergeants have ever asked "Did ya win"? That is just wishful thinking on your part.

You are 100 percent correct, the odds are in your favor. BUT, when you pass through that other state, and that officer looks at the AZ code, he is probably gonna read it and interpret it just like Flyer. So, now are you worried about having to come back to court in his state or whether his Sergeant will be impressed?

But like Mark said, do what you wanna do. You have already made up your mind anyway, that's why I didn't bother to post here. You think you found a loop hole and had already decided what you were gonna do. Flyer is learning what it has taken me years to learn. Some people here only want advice when it echoes what they want to hear. Any other advice (no matter how accurate) is wrong. 

 BTW: who is gonna drive your truck for you, since YOUR state says you need a cdl? 

 

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2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
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2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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Big Fiver, you also touched on my other reason for my not being too concerned.  Aside from being 85% sure I don't need a CDL (but will need an attorney), the last time I was stopped by a police office was over 50 years ago.  I find the speed limits are fast enough for me and life is easier if one just obeys the traffic laws.  I keep my running gear in good shape and give no reason to be stopped.  I have made a binder of important papers, and the AZ statements about CDLs.  If I am stopped, if nothing else, I will introduce confusion into the process.

John McLaughlin

2010 Volvo 730, D13, I-shift, singled and decked

2014 Lifestyle 38' Fifth Wheel

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