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My Life is Happy Chaos - Advice Please :D


AmyB

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I'll reference my earlier post questioning the use of a pick-up.  We have removed the back seat in our crew cab and that provides more than enough room for almost 250 pounds of dog.

2012 F350 KR CC DRW w/ some stuff
2019 Arctic Fox 32-5M
Cindy and Tom, Kasey and Maggie (our Newfie and Berner)
Oh...I forgot the five kids.

 

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1 hour ago, Yarome said:

If you're looking to "safely pull"... basically what you're looking for is 7100lbs w/20% margin tow capacity vehicle.. so 8520lbs. That would count out the Expedition and the Tahoe. Both are in the 6.6k range and not even close enough to make it work. The Denali "might" be doable (8300-8400 tow cap) but with a reduced safety margin. Yukon cargo capacity.. about 1600lbs. Subtracting full fuel (210), additional adult (150), 90lb dog, hitch weight (710) you're at about 1160lbs. Leaving 440lb's of actual cargo capacity. Not bad, but would be extremly easy to exceed. Lastly you would be looking at the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) @ 14k. Your trailer is 4.6k dry. The Yukon Denali is.. at the curb.. 5.5k. You're at 10.1k. Add in the basic cargo (people, fuel, dog, etc) that's 1.6 so 11.7k. That leaves 2300lbs cargo capacity between both the Yukon and your trailer. You're trailer is listing 2485 and the Yukon has a reserve of 440, but you can see that you wouldn't be able to actually utilize those numbers. With proper gear ratios, engine, tow package.. it's not undoable.

Thanks! I will expand to look at pickups... but one more SUV question. I would be looking at used vehicles, so I looked up the 2010 Expedition, and the Ford website (which I know you have to take the manufacturer's word with a grain of salt) says it tows 9000-9200 properly equipped with tow package etc. That wouldn't be sufficient?

Noted about the GCWR too... thank you!

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1 hour ago, AmyB said:

 2010 Expedition, and the Ford website (which I know you have to take the manufacturer's word with a grain of salt) says it tows 9000-9200 properly equipped with tow package etc. That wouldn't be sufficient?

THAT's a completely different animal. The old expeditions were an F-150 pickup (identical in every respect) but with a full body cab and interior. A truck/SUV hybrid which would probably work "better". The newer model expeditions were redesigned to fit into the true SUV market.

That being said.. I'm a full-time single towing the almost identical setup that you're considerin g. 25' trailer, 4600ish dry, 3850 cargo capacity. Fully loaded and under tow I'm at 7k. When it was new and towing it "dry"... I actually towed it about 300 miles down and back up I-5 between Portland and Eugene Oregon with an older model F-150 V8 extended cab 4X4. No canopy.. nothing in either rig but me myself and I. It towed fairly well. Pretty stable.. however.. although rated @9900 tow capacity there was one small stretch of what could barely be called more than a hill that I had two choices. Keep the engine just on the threshold of going "screaming" on me... dropping down to nearly under 40mph or go full on screaming (aka running the engine and tranny hard and kissing the already low MPG goodbye) to maintain 55.

Anyone that knows that stretch of road can tell you.. there is NO hill of any consequence. ;)

My regular tow rig is a 3/4ton diesel rated at 14k towing and I rarely even notice I have a tail.

If you do a lot more daily driving than travelling I can certainly understand wanting a more fuel efficient vehicle. It's definately a trade-off to be considered. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.. just my personal experience with a near identical sized house. The 2010 Expedition would be an improvement over the Yukon, but realize... you would actually be buying a TRUCK. ;) If you're going TRUCK anyway... there are better options available out there that would be better suited for your trailer and planned lifestyle.

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20 hours ago, Yarome said:

sinIf you do a lot more daily driving than travelling I can certainly understand wanting a more fuel efficient vehicle. It's definately a trade-off to be considered. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.. just my personal experience with a near identical sized house. The 2010 Expedition would be an improvement over the Yukon, but realize... you would actually be buying a TRUCK. ;) If you're going TRUCK anyway... there are better options available out there that would be better suited for your trailer and planned lifestyle.

4

Since we are comparing tow vehicles with a small travel trailer, I'll share our experience, just to give one more real life example of the differences for you to draw your own conclusion from.

Pam & I were forced from the road due to health issues to leave our fulltime motorhome and so we now tow a travel trailer of about 20' in length and which weighs under 4000# gross weight when fully loaded. We began this part of our adventure towing the little trailer behind an SUV which was rated to tow 5000# and was equipped to do so.  The SUV when operating alone would get about 22 mpg highway and probably around 18 mpg overall. We were not unhappy with the way it handled the trailer but when on uneven roads or in windy conditions it was a bit of a chore to drive and our fuel consumption with the trailer in tow ranged from a high of 14 mpg to a low of 9 mpg with an overall of about 11 mpg, gasoline. We were not unhappy with the result and we felt reasonably safe in doing so, but opportunity knocked and we were able to purchase a 3/4 ton, diesel truck with 4 door cab and short box to tow with. I would never had believed the improvement it made, had I not experienced it, even though I did understand towing weights and knew that the truck would be better. 

Results were that towing the trailer went from some degree of work to a situation where I had to be careful to remember that the trailer is behind us. Our first long trip was from east TX to VT and then MI and IN, eventually returning to TX, for a total of more than 7000 miles. The truck climbed all but the steepest of grades without even shifting down from overdrive and while the truck running empty got about 19 mpg, with the trailer in tow we ranged from a low of 12.7 mpg to a high of 14.8 mpg. In both vehicles, we typically traveled at about 60 mph. Even in windy conditions and on steep grades it was seldom that there was any noticeable difference in driving with the trailer. But that is only part of the story which may be of interest to you. Since our RV is short on storage space, we added a shell to the truck bed, replacing a tonneau cover for better access. We have just completed a trip from Texas to southern CA with the exact same equipment, plus that shell and probably 200# or more of additional things in the truck bed. Thus far we find that the addition of that shell has changed the aerodynamics to improve our fuel mileage significantly. Our consumption of diesel has gone to a lo!w of 12.7 mpg in a high headwind with uphill much of the distance, to 16.3 mpg when traveling between Tucson & Quartzsite! It is a bit early to draw a complete conclusion on the effect of the shell on fuel consumption, so I'll try not to get excited until we complete the return trip and double the total mileage, but thus far it would seem that the aerodynamic improvement has been more effective than the impact of increased weight with the power/weight combination that we now travel with. 

Much more important, however, is the fact that there is little doubt that we are much safer and travel is much easier that it ever was towing with the SUV. My bet is also that the annual fuel cost will be little different than it was with SUV because of the much improved mpg when towing. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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Okay... so IF... if if if... I was willing to get a legit TRUCK (lord help me) what would you guys recommend as the best choice given the fact that this also might have to double as a commute vehicle?

I want to be able to safely tow without worrying about damaging the transmission on a hill, but it will also be my only vehicle, so I don't want something that is too overpowered. I need to save MPG where I can. It also needs to be a crew cab, so I have room for mah doggie.

The guy who sold me the trailer said he pulled it no problem with a 1/2 ton, but he was only driving it a few miles from storage to the lake and, while it does have some mountains, this isn't Colorado.

 

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Well...a FORD, of course!

j/k

Find one of the Big 3... that you like... is within your budget, and buy it.  For your size trailer, you don't need anything bigger than a 250/2500 (3/4 ton).

2012 F350 KR CC DRW w/ some stuff
2019 Arctic Fox 32-5M
Cindy and Tom, Kasey and Maggie (our Newfie and Berner)
Oh...I forgot the five kids.

 

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1 minute ago, spindrift said:

Well...a FORD, of course!

j/k

Find one of the Big 3... that you like... is within your budget, and buy it.  For your size trailer, you don't need anything bigger than a 250/2500 (3/4 ton).

That would be Ford F-250, Dodge Ram 2500, and Chevy Silverado? Maybe? :)

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3 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

..we were able to purchase a 3/4 ton, diesel truck with 4 door cab and short box to tow with. I would never had believed the improvement it made, had I not experienced it, even though I did understand towing weights and knew that the truck would be better. 

Kirk, after all your and Pams road years.. and the past couple swearing by your smaller rig and SUV TV weekends.. you admit it? LOL We have a convert! No such thing as too much truck! :D

"Managing" a towed vehicle really doesn't have to be a full time job. Towing with enough truck and hardly realizing your under tow makes life an ump-teenth more pleasuarable. In miles as well as MPG's.

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Have you considered a used ¾ ton SUV like a Chevy Avalanche or Chevy Suburban.  These vehicles are SUVs in some respects but were built on heavy duty frames much like a pickup.  For the past 10 years we've been towing a 23' TT that weighs 10,000# fully loaded.  We tow with a 2004 Chevy Avalanche and, IMO, it's the ideal tow vehicle for our purposes.  It's our only vehicle so when we're unhitched to makes a very comfortable 5 passenger vehicle.  The rear has lots of covered, locked, storage space for the generator and other "stuff".  We have over 170K miles on it with almost no problems.  It has a towing capacity rating of 10,100# so no built-in margin but we can tow anywhere and hardly know the trailer is back there.  

Ron Engelsman

http://www.mytripjournal.com/our_odyssey

Full-Timing since mid 2007

23' Komfort TT

2004 Chevy Avalanche 4x4 8.1L

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We tow with a crew cab and built a bed that completely covers the back seat up to the backs of the front seat.It's just a piece of plywood with two legs that rest of the back seat floor.  Put a little padding on it, covered it with some denim and the dogs have a big space to travel in. Even you big dog would have more than enough room. In our case, our smaller dogs jump into the front floor, onto the front seats, then go between the bucket seats to the back. Don't know if your big dog could do that. 

The big Suburbans or the like are also a possibility. Be aware that there are 1/2 ton Suburbans and 3/4 ton Suburbans so you have to make sure you are looking at the  3/4 ton. It will do a great job of pulling your trailer.

2007 Arctic Fox 32.5RL used for full-timing for several years. Sold

2114 Sunnbrook 25' RL pull trailer for summer camping and short trips.

2007 Chevy diesel 

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Thanks for all the awesome info! I will definitely look into the heavy SUVs... (shall we call them truck-uvs? Or SUtrucks?)

In terms of pickups... does bed size matter? I'm kind of partial to the ones that have the crew cab and the shortened bed, but I wasn't sure if that would change the weight distribution or something in a negative way.

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Pulling a travel trailer, bed size won't matter (other than having a shorter storage space).  If you were going the 5th wheel route, then a long bed is typically better.

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18 hours ago, Yarome said:

Kirk, after all your and Pams road years.. and the past couple swearing by your smaller rig and SUV TV weekends.. you admit it? LOL We have a convert!

1
 
1

Not true at all. As I stated before, and always have, the SUV we had was sufficient to tow our little travel trailer safely. Not one time have you seen a post by me which said that larger was not better, only that it can be a cost/value question and that if the travel trailer is small enough you can safely tow it with a properly setup SUV. I still own the same SUV and I have towed the trailer with it as recently as last January. The point I was making is one that you have never seen me deny, and that is that the heavier truck will do the job better and more comfortably. 

What changed was that when we bought the trailer Pam's health was such that we were only able to leave for short periods and short trips, so the cost justification for purchasing a larger truck simply was not there. After nearly 3 years off of the road for better medical care, her health improved to a point where we now travel for several months at a time so the truck was much more justifiable. The dynamics and my knowledge of them have not changed, but the mpg issues were greater than I would have expected. The greater fuel efficiency doesn't offset much cost when towing for a month or two per year like it can if you tow half or more of the year. I continue to state that you can safely tow with an SUV as long as the tow vehicle is properly set up and you pay attention to towing limits, which also remains true for towing with any truck. For the most part, more tow vehicle is better, but it may not be cost justified. The real world is still one that demands that budget to play a major role in these choices, and some people must do what they can afford. Safety first, financial well being next!

PS: "After all these years?" We only bought the SUV & travel trailer 4+ years ago, as we were motorhome people for all of our fulltime adventure?

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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Trailer RVs are not expensive!  They are typically cheaply made and even new the costs are reasonable.  Lots of people buy them and then sell again within a few years.  That makes the cost of a used RV even more reasonable.  Unfortunately we quickly learn the cost of RV travel is more related to the cost of the tow vehicle.  Once you have decided on an RV weighing ten thousand pounds or more, you will need a serious tow vehicle.  That does not mean the family car or even an SUV designed to haul 7 people to soccer games.  You need a truck, 3/4 ton or more.  That is going to cost some serious money and it is NOT going to make a good commuter vehicle.  I cannot even get my crew cab, 8' bed pickup into the parking slots at the local malls.  To make it even worse, if you pull a heavy load, you need to think about a diesel engine.  There is a world of difference and it becomes all but essential for longer distance driving or for driving in mountains.  A suitable new vehicle is going to cost well over $50K.  Trying to buy used is still going to be expensive and often finding a suitable used HD pickup can be difficult.  Many are used on farms and commercial uses and take a beating.

Again, it is none of my personal business, but I recommend looking at priorities.  I am conservative.  Forget the RV until you have your new career path well established.  Then perhaps the money and trying to get by cheap will not be important.

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On 3/29/2017 at 6:53 AM, Kirk Wood said:

Not one time have you seen a post by me which said that larger was not better...

Sounds like I might have offended, but that wasn't intended. Just ribbing you a bit with a smile on my face, Kirk. :D You've got a lot of experience on the road and are better equipped to handle the dynamics of an SUV/full sized trailer package. It's not necessarily for the faint of heart... even when all the numbers line up. 

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On 3/29/2017 at 10:22 AM, JimK said:

Trailer RVs are not expensive!  They are typically cheaply made and even new the costs are reasonable.  Lots of people buy them and then sell again within a few years.  That makes the cost of a used RV even more reasonable.  Unfortunately we quickly learn the cost of RV travel is more related to the cost of the tow vehicle.  Once you have decided on an RV weighing ten thousand pounds or more, you will need a serious tow vehicle.  That does not mean the family car or even an SUV designed to haul 7 people to soccer games.  You need a truck, 3/4 ton or more.  That is going to cost some serious money and it is NOT going to make a good commuter vehicle.  I cannot even get my crew cab, 8' bed pickup into the parking slots at the local malls.  To make it even worse, if you pull a heavy load, you need to think about a diesel engine.  There is a world of difference and it becomes all but essential for longer distance driving or for driving in mountains.  A suitable new vehicle is going to cost well over $50K.  Trying to buy used is still going to be expensive and often finding a suitable used HD pickup can be difficult.  Many are used on farms and commercial uses and take a beating.

Again, it is none of my personal business, but I recommend looking at priorities.  I am conservative.  Forget the RV until you have your new career path well established.  Then perhaps the money and trying to get by cheap will not be important.

Really?  Since I have absolutely no idea of this individual's personal, or business situation, I'll assume that she has things covered.  She has certainly demonstrated a clear interest in researching this part of her decision.  I can only imagine she has done the same in other areas of her life.

2012 F350 KR CC DRW w/ some stuff
2019 Arctic Fox 32-5M
Cindy and Tom, Kasey and Maggie (our Newfie and Berner)
Oh...I forgot the five kids.

 

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On 3/29/2017 at 10:22 AM, JimK said:

 

Again, it is none of my personal business, but I recommend looking at priorities.  I am conservative.  Forget the RV until you have your new career path well established.  Then perhaps the money and trying to get by cheap will not be important.

I'm an accountant of overwhelmingly German ancestry. Not to indulge in cultural/occupational stereotypes, but I am always going to be frugal, even if I had ten million dollars in the bank. 

Also, my priority right now is to enjoy my life. I've done the "amass money and work so hard you don't have time to enjoy it" thing, and I thought I'd try something new for awhile. Some amount of risk is unavoidable, but I'm doing what I can to mitigate that while still pursuing the things I want to pursue, while I'm (relatively) young and healthy. I figure if this venture fails, I can always go back to conventional office work after a year or two, and then I'll at least be able to say that I gave it a whirl.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, spindrift said:

Really?  Since I have absolutely no idea of this individual's personal, or business situation, I'll assume that she has things covered.  She has certainly demonstrated a clear interest in researching this part of her decision.  I can only imagine she has done the same in other areas of her life.

Yeah, actually I tend to over-research, to the point of getting so burned out on learning about something that I never actualize my plans. That's really what I'm trying to work on right now, with this. Researching and learning without crossing over the line that this travel passion becomes more like work. My idea of "crazy risky" is other people's idea of choosing hot sauce over mild at the local Mexican restaurant. It's all about degrees, y'know? :D

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2 hours ago, AmyB said:

Also, my priority right now is to enjoy my life. I've done the "amass money and work so hard you don't have time to enjoy it" thing, and I thought I'd try something new for awhile. Some amount of risk is unavoidable, but I'm doing what I can to mitigate that while still pursuing the things I want to pursue, while I'm (relatively) young and healthy. I figure if this venture fails, I can always go back to conventional office work after a year or two, and then I'll at least be able to say that I gave it a whirl.

 

While I do believe in planning for the future and often post on that subject, I also very much believe in building your dreams into those plans! Life is far too fleeting for one to waste all of it building assets to leave behind when it comes to an end and that can happen without warning and sometimes much sooner than one expects. Your time is the only thing that you have which once gone can never be recovered or replaced. 

While you haven't shared your age, you have indicated that you find yourself with very little responsibility for others at this point in life, so why not strike out to experience something new, rather than just dreaming of it? Some say that "he who dies with the most toys wins," but I say that he who dies with the most toys is still dead. Very few people at death's door express the wish that they had spent more time working.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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6 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

While I do believe in planning for the future and often post on that subject, I also very much believe in building your dreams into those plans! Life is far too fleeting for one to waste all of it building assets to leave behind when it comes to an end and that can happen without warning and sometimes much sooner than one expects. Your time is the only thing that you Some say that "he who dies with the most toys wins," but I say that he who dies with the most toys is still dead. Very few people at death's door express the wish that they had spent more time working.

Precisely this!

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On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 8:08 AM, AmyB said:

1.  And if our vehicle needed work, we wouldn't have to get a hotel room because our "home" was in the shop, etc.

2.  Along with all of the above, I'm also weighing the options of selling versus renting my home. I've only owned this home for a year, but the market is doing really well right now. If I sell it, my realtor says I could probably make almost $10k after realtor fees and buyer repair requests. Single family homes are flying off the market in days. But there is the hassle of then being on the buyer's timeline.

1.  That's what knocked motorhomes out of contention for us.  If it breaks down, you've lost your vehicle AND your home.

 

2.  You should do some serious research here, too.  This is probably 'Too Much Information', but...  I gave up my Realtor license in 2014, after 7 years (3 in Illinois & 4 in Texas).  I think your Realtor's claim that you can make a $10k profit after all expenses (commissions, repairs, taxes, etc), AND after only owning the home for one year, to be quite outrageous.  Good rule of thumb is a person shouldn't buy a home if they don't plan on staying there at least five years, because on average it takes that long of owning the home to "break even".

Realtors are, bottom-line, sales people.  They are trained to phrase things in a way that it's what you want to hear, just so you'll hire them, and unfortunately some of them are actually outright bald-faced liars.  In late 2013 a survey by a home warranty company ranked the trustworthiness of several professions.  Overall, 67.5% of respondents found Realtors untrustworthy, putting them on par with bankers and attorneys.

I got into real estate for the opportunity for good money, as most Realtors do, and for years ignored what I saw going on around me by telling myself I wasn't responsible for other people's behavior.  As long as I remained honest, that's what counted.  But then that survey made the news and it opened my eyes, forcing me to start soul-searching.  I came to the awful conclusion that I wasn't being judged by people on my personal behavior.  I was being judged by the word 'Realtor' behind my name, and by the behavior of the "company I kept".  I suddenly felt like Daniel in the middle of the Babylonian, watching them worship a golden statue, and it was then I realized I couldn't be associated with the real estate industry anymore.

Best of luck finding a tow vehicle, Amy.

 

Cheers,

Ken

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1 hour ago, SecondWind said:

1.  That's what knocked motorhomes out of contention for us.  If it breaks down, you've lost your vehicle AND your home.

 

This has not been our experience when fulltime. The only time in our 11+ years that we were not allowed to stay in the motorhome at night on the shop site was once when we had some roof work done at an RV shop and that would have been no different if we had been in a travel trailer or fifth wheel. Most service work that we experienced was RV related.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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9 hours ago, SecondWind said:

1.  That's what knocked motorhomes out of contention for us.  If it breaks down, you've lost your vehicle AND your home.

That was not our experience either. We've stayed both inside and outside repair/upgrade facilities. Once you close the shades for the night nothing looks any different in either place than it does in any campground. In fact, our experience is that staying right there encourages them to do your work sooner.

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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