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SWharton

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I am totally out of my territory here. I would like to give my son-in-law my rifles and pistols. We are in VA and he is in AZ. Is there any problem in just putting them under the bed in the MH and driving out there. None are registered.

Any other suggestions???

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8 minutes ago, SWharton said:

Is there any problem in just putting them under the bed in the MH and driving out there.

I should probably toss out the usual disclaimer to basically "go check for yourself" (the responsibility is yours).. but I'll go out on a limb. :lol:

NOPE! Assuming you're using an ounce of sense.. which I know you to have... (like not detouring through states with border checks or the great nation of California.. ahem) it would fall under Federal firearms transportation laws. No fuss no muss.

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There are two issues involved. Transportation of firearms across state lines and transfer of ownership. As mentioned, interstate transportation is generally OK and covered by 18 USC 926a. It is my understanding that transfer of ownership to a resident of another state may require that a Licensed Firearms Dealer process the transfer. You need to check on the state and federal laws.

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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I will send DW, we have a fair population of seniors and our LEO's are use to dealing with the wives and their questions when a spouse passes on. I have known them to come to a house and make sure all the guns were unloaded. Just like our fire dept. will put new batteries in the seniors smoke alarms and put car seats in cars for all of us.

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1 minute ago, Mntom said:

You would be farther ahead in my opinion to not say anything to any LEO about what you want to do, BUT if the guns were all in cases and not loaded then you are legal.

X2. If you need the reassurance to make you more comfortable.. then by all means, but as Mntom pointed out. if they are properly stowed and unload.. you're good to go.

It's really no different than many of us that carry multiple firearms in our rigs full time.

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1 minute ago, SWharton said:

Transfer of ownership???? How does anyone know who owns the guns? Big Brother wasn't around 50+ years ago. I don't have cases but will wrap them in bubble wrap.

Bubble wrap is fine.. and so is Arizona. The state doesn't require gun registration or transfer of ownership. AZ is VERY gun friendly.

" In accordance with Arizona gun laws, the registration of firearms is not necessary. In addition, there is no requirement of permits or application for license to purchase, posses, or carry firearms. The sole exception pertains to the carrying of firearms, where a permit is needed to carry a concealed handgun"

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27 minutes ago, SWharton said:

Transfer of ownership???? How does anyone know who owns the guns? Big Brother wasn't around 50+ years ago. I don't have cases but will wrap them in bubble wrap.

I took your question to be asking what the applicable laws are. Gifting of a firearm is in some states considered the same as a private sale. There are also sometimes differences in handguns and long guns in both the federal and state regulations. I am under the impression that there are federal rules on interstate transfer of ownership of firearms.

I am not so sure that bubble wrap meets the requirement of the federal law that: "Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

 Do whatever you want, I just was trying to provide accurate information.

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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In the bed box inside his "home" (even if it moves) is considered a "compartment separate from the driver's compartment." No bubble wrap is even required.. nor are cases. I just said bubble wrap was fine so they aren't banging around and getting all scratched up. :lol:

There ARE federal laws regarging the interstate transfer of ownership of handguns. In HIS case.. it's doesn't apply since NEITHER the origin and destination states require registration or transfer of ownership documentation.. NOR.. is gifting a firearm considered a private party sale.

All information is appreciated, but to be most helpful should be limited to specific State laws as they pertain to the individual situation.

In his case.. the only Federal or State laws that concern him are the Federal transportation laws.

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10 minutes ago, Yarome said:

...In his case.. the only Federal or State laws that concern him are the Federal transportation laws...

From the ATF site linked to above: "Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer's State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping."

Like I said the OP can make his decision how ever he wants to.

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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4 minutes ago, TCW said:

From the ATF site linked to above: "Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer's State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping."

Correct! IF it's being shipped over state lines it must be properly documented/registered and shipped from one FFL to another. That's not what he's doing.

NOTE: It's says "obtain" and "buyer".

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I believe "obtain" is considered to include gifts (this is one of the big objections to universal background checks) and the fact that he drives the firearm to Arizona does not make him a resident of Arizona, he is still a resident of Virginia no matter where he is physically located at the moment until he changes his state of residence and or domicile. Here is an NRA article on gifting firearms. "However, if you want to give a firearm to someone who lives in another state, you are required to go through an FFL. Transfers between non-FFL residents of different states cannot be done any other way."

The one that dies with the most toys is still dead!

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It still does not make his son a "buyer". 

BUT, hypothetically, if SWharton GAVE those weapons to his son in law (or daughter) when they resided in the same state and the son in law (or daughter) said "Hey dad, I moved and forgot to take all of MY guns with me. You know, all the ones that you GAVE me when I lived there and you were storing for me? Well, the next time you come to Arizona. would you bring MY guns to me?" then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all, would we? After all who, other than SWharton and the S-I-L (or daughter) can prove when ownership was transfered since neither state in question requires a paper trail to transfer a gift.  And if the S-I-L never lived in the state with SWharton, and the daughter wants to give/share/co-own them with her husband, who resides in the same state as she does (I presume), then she is well within the law. That accomplishes the goal of allowing the S-I-L to have them, right?

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
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You're getting into all kinds of minutiae and gray area arguments of what is and what isn't and definitions that are constantly under argument. I'm not willing to go there. ;)

I'll agree that FFL to FFL (ie., going to an FFL in AZ to register and transfer ownership to the SIL) is the letter of the law and what "big brother" wants.

In his case.. his guns have no record of orgin or ownership. His state doesn't require documentation or consider it to be a private party sale. Neither does his SIL's state. As long as he transports them legally... there is nothing that State or Federal authorities could (or would) ever do anything about.

With one exception. If his SIL decides one day to use one of the firearms in the commission of a crime.. and during the course of an investigation dear SIL tells authorities, "my father-in-law brought it from Virginia and gave it to me".... then gun trafficking charges could be brought to bear.

I guess you have to decide where your comfort level falls and what type of regulation you want to willing submit yourself to. 

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10 minutes ago, Yarome said:

Exactly! And from our "resident" LEO. ;)

Oh no...I don't enforce Federal gun laws...only Texas State law and Federal Motor Carrier Regulations. And if I decide to give my step son in law a firearm, I will give my step son a firearm. As long as he can own it in NC and it is legal in TX, I couldn't care what the ATF says about "buyers" and "sellers". I also will not "ship" it to an FFL dealer. I'll drive it there myself and visit my grandkids while I do it.

 

20 minutes ago, Yarome said:

With one exception. If his SIL decides one day to use one of the firearms in the commission of a crime.. and during the course of an investigation dear SIL tells authorities, "my father-in-law brought it from Virginia and gave it to me".... then gun trafficking charges could be brought to bear.

At that point, he needs to be saying "Damn, it's missing. He must have stolen it".:) 

Now whose word are they gonna believe? A fine upstanding member of this forum, or some law breaking S-I-L???:P

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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16 minutes ago, Big5er said:

At that point, he needs to be saying "Damn, it's missing. He must have stolen it".:) 

Now whose word are they gonna believe? A fine upstanding member of this forum, or some law breaking S-I-L???:P

I just bucksnorted my cuppa! LMFAO :lol:

Completely agree on all counts!

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Guns are available at all yard sales in AZ cash n carry.  Put the ammo in a side compartment where out of your reach and good for the get go

Jim Spence

2000 Dodge 3500 1 ton QC 4x4 dually 5.9 diesel LB

BD exhaust brake, 6 spd manual trans

34CKTS Cedar Creek 5er, Trail-Air hitch

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You should never asked the questions what with all the experts here.

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

SKP 100137. North Ridgeville, Ohio in the summer, sort of and where ever it is warm in the winter.

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22 minutes ago, richfaa said:

You should never asked the questions what with all the experts here.

Well that would bring about 90% of the threads here to a screeching halt. :wacko:

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
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1 hour ago, richfaa said:

You should never asked the questions what with all the experts here.

WINNING!!!

Another way to say it is; You should never have asked the questions what with all the non-experts here. 

Since you plan to DRIVE, you both will be in AZ, face-to-face.  No FFL involvement is needed at all in that case.  

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