converting propane water heater to electric

[Happy Wanderer]

My 19-yr-old propane-only water heater keeps extinguishing the pilot light.  A technician told me that the cheapest solution (other than re-lighting every time I want a shower) is to buy a heating element that screws into the drain plug.  A quick search reveals that they are priced from $70 to $170.  Anyone got recommendations for whatever is working for them?  I have a separate 110v outlet on the pedestal to plug it into, and seems like any easy upgrade.  I just don't know anything about them, or which brand names or features to look for.

[Lou Schneider]

I think you need to find another technician who knows how to make your water heater work properly.  It's not rocket science to ensure the pilot flame is the right size and is aimed correctly at the thermocouple and the thermocouple sends the correct signal to the gas valve.

 

The electric heating elements produce much less heat than the gas flame so you'll have a longer heat-up and recovery time versus using the gas flame.  Plus they don't work at all when 120 volts isn't available.

[Devilishjim]

I havent looked into it but I agree on another tech but that electric element is also going to need a thermostat. 19 yrs old I wouldnt stick to much into it.... Look up prices on an upgrade to possibly a 10gal that will work on gas or elect

 

[Kirk W]

13 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

I think you need to find another technician who knows how to make your water heater work properly.  

I know that you need a different RV tech. Whatever you do, don't trust this person to work on anything that you own. 

The most common cause of that problem is the spark probe which also serves as a flame sensor, returning a tiny voltage to the circuit board when it senses heat. Putting in one of those heating elements isn't as easy as he makes it sound as you have to wire in a source of 120V-ac power for that heating element, since your water heater only has 12v-dc power there now.  That won't be free even if you know how to do the work since there is wire and assorted other electric components required. 

Keep in mind also that if this is a Suburban water heater that requires an anode type of drain plug, the electric element replaces that so no more anode and in time the tank will fail. Of course, at 19 years old it probably don't have that much life left anyway.

[mptjelgin]

2 hours ago, Devilishjim said:

I havent looked into it but I agree on another tech but that electric element is also going to need a thermostat. 19 yrs old I wouldnt stick to much into it.... Look up prices on an upgrade to possibly a 10gal that will work on gas or elect

 

The conversion kits include a thermostat and necessary wiring. I know several people who have added them to their "propane only" water heaters so that they could use campground electricity to heat water. 

One common version (Camco 11673) runs about $80 and uses a 425 watt element. 

I would hesitate to spend much on a 19 year old water heater, but if the propane system is not working and the OP has electricity available, this wouldn't be a bad way to go. 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Do a search on ebay. There are some 6 gallon lp/elec suburban water heaters for $285. For that much, I would replace the heater.

[Lou Schneider]

2 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

One common version (Camco 11673) runs about $80 and uses a 425 watt element. 

 

That's what I was saying.  425 watts = 1450 BTU.  The flame in a Suburban water heater produces 12,000 BTU, or about 8 times as much heat.

Even if the heating element used 1500 watts, that's still only 5100 BTU, or about 42% of the gas flame heat.

[oldjohnt]

 I don't have the brand, but the after market electric element I bought on E Bay (Hot Rod or Hot Shot???) screwed as usual into the tanks lower drain plug then simply wired to 120 VAC via the thermostat that mounted up against the safety pressure relief valve,  installation was a piece of cake and it worked perfect. NOTE HOWEVER it is far less BTU of the gas heater and there's a much longer recovery time but it never caused me any problems unless I needed hot water quick after I plugged into an RV park or perhaps two back to back showers were needed.  If I was at an park where electric wasn't charged separate I used it so I didn't deplete my onboard LP Gas supply. Of course when dry camped it was LP only. I did use BOTH such as let the electric do the initial (longer term of course) warm up and if we needed two back to back showers Id let the LP Gas do the quick recovery. 

 You say 19 yrs old and extinguishes the pilot light, is it the older thermocouple and full time pilot system (my guess based on your post and words pilot light) or the more modern electric spark ignition (NO constant pilot light) ??? In the older full time pilot heaters if the pilot flame is too low/weak (low pressure or restriction) that may be the problem or if the pilot doesn't stay lit the thermocouple (or other problems) could be the problem. In the later spark ignitions the control boards or the ignitor tip or other fairly simple items could be the problem (but they have no "pilot light") HOWEVER ITS HARD TO IMAGINE A COMPETENT TECHNICIAN COULDNT FIX IT !!!!!! Maybe they just want to sell a new expensive unit to make more profit??????????? Regardless, dual fuel (new or upgrade) is very convenient to have.

 I think before installing an after market 120 VAC heater Id get a second opinion to repair yours or buy a new dual fired (LP and Electric) heater since its 19 years old  

 

 John T

[bigjim]

I installed a "Hot Rod" aftermarket years ago and it worked well for me -But- it wasn't what I would call easy.  The heating element part was easy enough but installing the theromstat part and the outlet to plug into was more complicated and there was a risk of damaging the tank if I screwed up. The location of my hot water heater and my almost total lack of experience was a factor.  I did end up doing everything right and it worked well for the time period I had it.  If I would have had to pay someone to do it I believe I would have been better off with a new hot water heater.

One thing I wonder about is what is actually causing your pilot to go out. On gas valves of a certain era there was and adjustment for the pilot that sometimes solve the problem. I set mine slightly higher than normal and left it on pilot and could take a full 6 gal. shower without the burner ever kicking in and a few hours  later had full hot water for dishes or whatever. Judicious timing of usage that way saved a lot of propane when I boondocked.

[Happy Wanderer]

Thanks for all the replies.  Here's some more details:  The Atwood water heater, Model G6A-7 is propane only, so no CHEAP way to replace it with a gas/electric unit.  The wiring would be labor intensive ($), involving putting in a separate breaker for it, and this old trailer just isn't worth putting that much money into.  I'm keeping up with the maintenance, but feel major upgrades would be money not well spent.  I'm not sure if thermocouple is the right terminology, but the technician said that unit (everything but the tank) needs replacing, as the current one is obsolete and contains mercury.  He was willing to replace it, for $150 plus $65 labor, but he warned me that there was a small possibility that it might break at the thread when removing.  If that happened, I would have to replace the whole water heater.

He said the electric heating elements that screwed into the bottom drain would be the least expensive way to go for me.  He said I could plug it into the 120v plug on my terminal at the park I'm staying in to keep from overloading my 30 amp power in the trailer.  I run a heater or AC as needed, so I don't want the electric heating element drawing from the outside 120v plug which would be very convenient.  I did look up the Hot Rod and read the reviews.  Although the unit works well after installation, there are several issues concerning getting it into place.  One poster said she had to removed the gas line in order to reach the drain.  Then, there's the issue of installing the sensor directly on the tank itself.  It's not just a plug and play situation.

I'm still deciding what to do, as I can just relight the pilot each time I want a shower, and heat water on the stove for doing dishes.  I workout at the gym several times a week, so I shower there, and having a shower at home is not that critical.  The pilot light seems to be plenty big and envelopes the heat sensor, so I don't know if anything can be adjusted to keep it lit.  I've tried several times to upload a photo, but get the message that only 102kb are allowed.  My photo is 89kb, so don't know why it won't upload.  

My internet has been very slow, hence this late reply.

[oldjohnt]

Happy Wanderer, Don't ya love the polka type song "The Happy Wanderer"

Anyhow, I don't have the RV any longer but the after market hot rod type or brand ???? of electric heating element I bought WAS SO EASY TO INSTALL and it worked perfect. Unlike my buddys who had to install the heat sensor (Thermostat) inside up against the tank inside by cutting out insulation, my thermostat simply mounted up and against the temperature/pressure relief valve right there on the outside of the tank where it was sooooooooooo easy to get to and attach. It was child's play as compared to his. Then all you need is a wire to the T stat down to the hot rod then back out and you could wire up overload protection, an extension cord, and a 15 amp male plug if you wanted to plug to the parks pedestal versus hard wire it to your trailer wiring. Unless the trailer (30 amp right?) is  already electrically overloaded (which I doubt) I thought the hot rod was only like 400 watts or so and that isn't too much to add and shouldn't cause a problem if hard wired.

 If the gas valve opening blows out the pilot that's one thing (sometimes by too low pilot flame or pressure)  but if it fails to stay lit when you release the manual push for pilot button/knob and/or just goes out sometime that may be a bad thermocouple (the copper looking tube which the pilot flame should cover well).

 I'm in a hurry but look on Amazon and E Bay for electric heater conversions that have the t stat mounted on the outside against the relief valve as they are sooooooooooo easy to install and mine worked perfect.

  John T

 

 

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

Tell me more about this pilot issue you are having. Does it light up and run one cycle then quit? Does it quit part way through the cycle? Here is a manual that explains some things that may or may not be of assistance: http://www.atwoodmobile.com/dealer-manuals/waterheatermanual.pdf

[Happy Wanderer]

Mntom, thanks for the link to the manual.  The troubleshooting guide gives me a couple of things to look at tomorrow morning.  I will check the air tube adjustment first.  The pilot lights OK, and the burner turns on and heats the water for one cycle, then the pilot light goes off.  At least I think it's a full cycle, since I have plenty of hot water for a leisurely shower.  It's not windy here, so that's not the issue.  Appreciate any suggestions of what might be the problem.

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

Sounds like when the main burner shuts off the burner goes POOF and blows the pilot out. Try pulling the burner and clean the place where the flame is. It could be getting rusted and cause issues. Then make sure the air shutter is adjusted properly. Too much primary air can cause a hard light and also a poof when shutting down.

[Happy Wanderer]

Mntom, my control unit is the Jade model shown on page 7 of the manual you sent me.  Today, I lit the pilot, held it in place for 30 seconds, and turned it to on.  The burner came on right away.  I let it run for a minute then turned the temperature lever to the coolest setting, and the burner turned off.  The pilot light stayed lit.  I then turned the temperature lever to the middle setting and the burner roared to life again.  I sat there for 20 minutes while it heated the water.  The air shutter is about 1/3 open.  I hesitate to change it because it's worked all these years in that position.  If I put my finger over one of the holes, there was a definite decrease in the roar of the burner.  I don't think that is my problem.  When the burner shut off after 20 minutes, there was no poof.  I sat there for another full 5 minutes waiting for the pilot light to go out.  It stayed lit.  I went in and took a shower, and 20 minutes later I checked the pilot light and it was out.  As stated before, the pilot light totally engulfs the thermocouple when lit. 

You are probably right about rust build up, given its age.  There is definitely rust on the vent louvers.  I will work on cleaning the area around the flame tomorrow.

OldJohnT, yes the Happy Wanderer song will put one in a good mood, for sure.  I hadn't heard it in a long time, so had to go to YouTube to refresh my memory.  Now, I feel like skipping!

[I'mdonewiththis forum]

Well, you kind of shot my idea down......., BUT still clean the burner. When the pilot stayed on the access door was open, correct? When the door was closed the pilot goes out. HHHmmmm........

[coachmac9]

We got the Camco unit and it is very easy to install. We used the electric outlet that was designed for the washer/dryer combo (we never use it) so we didn't have to do any major wiring. It comes with very good instructions and is very straightforward. As mentioned above it takes longer to heat up the hot water but I like having options. If we are in a hurry we use gas, but most of the time we use the electric option. We camp host and gate guard a lot so the electric   bill is paid by the folks we are working for, that's another plus in my book!! Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[bigjim]

If I ever do it again I want that kind.

Keep in mind that just because there is a 30 amp outlet and a 15/20amp outlet on the post that they are on seperate circuits. Some places will only have 30amps all together on the post. I volunteered at place several time where this was the case and often people would try to get 50 amps by using an adapter that has been advertised. Sometimes they caused damage.

If I haven't said it before, I think you will like the results if you can make it work.

[oldjohnt]

16 hours ago, bigjim said:

Keep in mind that just because there is a 30 amp outlet and a 15/20amp outlet on the post that they are on seperate circuits

bigjim  EXACTLY If a pedestal has a true 50 amp service (L1 & L2) along with 30 (say L1) and 20 amp (say L2) receptacles, there's a good chance (if wired correct) the 30 amp and 20 amp are on separate legs. HOWEVER as you well point out, if there's ONLY one leg (L1 or L2) available in the pedestal you sure aren't gonna get two legs of 120 volt.  If a hot rod style heater is say 400 watts ???  that's just 3.33 amps which shouldn't cause a problem in many typical 15 amp branch circuits.

 

 John T