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How do we fund highways?


Kirk W

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I just read an article about the future of highway funding. The author examined revenues from the present sources of highway money as compared to highway maintenance and construction costs and the prediction was that at some point we will have to find a way to raise money based upon miles driven rather than the amount of fuel consumed. He indicates that many states are considering increasing the tax per gallon but proposed tolls as a better means of paying for highways.

 

It lead me to wonder what my fellow RV owners think is the appropriate way to solve this funding problem. Would you prefer that fuel taxes be increased, or that more roads be toll funded, or perhaps some other means? It is a difficult problem but it does seem that toll supported highways are increasing and probably will continue to be used. We all want good highways, so how should we pay for them?

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
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Good topic, Kirk. Highway use taxes are a fair way to fund our highway systems. I see the issue as being two fold: how tocollect the tax and how the collected monies are held and used. It seems to me that a tax on fuel is equitable tor the time being. But what happens when alternative fuels are more prevalent? Tolls slow traffic and are seldom used for highway maintenance as they should. I don't have the definitive answer. I do feel strongly that the collected monies should be purposed and used solely for highway maintenance and expansion. They should never be placed into a general purpose budget.

oRV

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I believe that if government would spend fuel and vehicle fees only on our roads and bridges we wouldn't have problems like the I-35W bridge in Minneapolis falling down a few years ago.

 

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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I believe that if government would spend fuel and vehicle fees only on our roads and bridges

So what are they being spent on? I hear a lot of talk about the fuel taxes and such being spent in other ways, but can find little documentation on the subject. According to an article in Forbes published in 2013, since 1997 all of the federal highway fuel taxes have gone into the highway funds.

 

Even if your comment is valid, it still leaves us with the same problem.

 

 

Nationwide in 2010, state and local governments raised $37 billion in motor fuel taxes and $12 billion in tolls and non-fuel taxes, but spent $155 billion on highways.[3] In other words, highway user taxes and fees made up just 32 percent of state and local expenses on roads. The rest was financed out of general revenues, including federal aid.

This comes from the Tax Foundation, dated 2014.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Kirk the big issue is the formula for a charge of any kind. Large trucks 'need' the roads. But their miles and more importantly their weight destroy the highways. So is it fair to charge them more when they 'have' to use them? While we use the roads mainly for pleasure.

If weight is used imagine those with large RVs getting upset.

 

Rather than a road tax on highway use based on miles traveled or a fuel tax. Would it be better to collect taxes based on registration purposes? Then there's the guy with the harvester which only comes out once a year. Too hard.

 

There will be folks who get upset regardless.

 

regards

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Sine the current fuel tax is fairly well accepted, then a per- mile tax would seem to be the easiest path forward. And it should be based on electronic collection. As is widely done today.

 

It should never be able to be used by government for any purpose other than the intended purpose.

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Here in Colorado your license plate fees are based on the age and weight of the vehicle. There is an ownership tax based on age which as far as I know goes the general tax fund. Then there are the weight fees which are split between "road safety" and "bridge" funds. Sounds good right? However, these funds are NOT reserved for what it sounds like they should be, but are the whim of the legislators as technically the law was written to allow the money to be spent on "transportation solutions" which could be light rail, or street cars, but not necessarily roads. If the this approach was taken and the funds were specifically retained and used for roads, I believe it would be a good solution.

 

On another note, here locally in the Pikes Peak region a 1% sales tax was passed to fund the Pikes Peak Rural Transportation Authority. The title to me sounds funny as there is not a lot of rural in the second most populous county in the state. However, in addition to partially funding the Metro bus service the money goes road maintenance and construction and in the respect is working very well. Initially some people balked at a sales tax, but when you think about it everything you buy, even if you walked to the store, had to use a road to get to where you bought it. I personally think this is the best solution for everywhere.

 

The real key to any road funding is to make sure the taxes and fees collected are going to be used for exactly that purpose and nothing else, which is not the case at all in most places.

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I have a LOT of ideas that would help the infrastructure funding but most of them are not popular politically so I will refrain from mentioning them. As vehicles become more efficient, the government is collecting fewer taxes per mile driven than before. I doubt that many of us would accept the $1.00 per gallon of road use taxes that it would take to fix the current issues on our road systems, fix the bottle necks for future increases and fund new road projects. Yes, the larger trucks cause a lot of the damage but then again, they also pay more in road use taxes, fuel taxes, registration fees, tags, etc. I think that we will eventually get to a fuel tax increase and a road use tax based upon miles driven and the weight of the vehicle.

 

None of that will be popular with people but I would prefer we do something to sitting back and doing nothing. I really have no desire to fall thru the deck on a bridge and into a river due to no maintenance being done on a bridge and instead would rather pay more and travel safely. With the moaning and groaning from a lot of RV's complaining about the cost of a lifetime senior pass going up from $10 to $50, I can only imagine the uproar that raising taxes this much will cause however.

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I believe that if government would spend fuel and vehicle fees only on our roads and bridges we wouldn't have problems like the I-35W bridge in Minneapolis falling down a few years ago.

 

Linda Sand

 

 

 

This would be a good start!!

 

We are playing catch-up now, no question about it. As much as I hate any 'temporary tax' (As temporary too often becomes permanent:)!), I'd be in favor of increasing the fuel tax for a 5-10 year period to help jump start repairs and expansion.

 

I have a personal dislike of the millions spent on trains (California is a god example.), light rail/subways too. Tax train and rail/subway users to cover those costs.

 

I also have seen, again locally in and statewide too, how powerful the Bicycle gangs have become. Passing laws 'three abreast' bike riding OK, and ticket to motorist who pass them. The costs of the signs, the painting, the expansions of specific bike lane only, etc. Here again is a group that are not paying their way say via bike licensing, and annual at that to help maintain their bike using infrastructure. That or locally, and statewide, sponsor bills/propositions that can be voted on to raise specific funds for these activities. (Don't get me wrong. I'm all for bike safety, and improving bike pathways. But, want these to specific items I can vote on as I see merit for a specific plan.)

 

Too many years, the 'well, we'll just tap the state and federal gas tax funds' to cover this - has in many locals raided funds that did not go into roads and highway infrastructure.

 

$.02...

Smitty

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I always liked the Toll Roads in my younger years and as I got older I only recall being on Kansas and Oklahoma Toll Roads. Last year I had the occasion to change my mind about toll roads and Maintenance. I was going to Howe Indiana. It was the roughness road I had driven in many years and had to pay extra to drive it. And Driving across Illinois we experienced big pot holes. So where does the money go. Maintenance is a continuous job

I read some some things about the Texas tollways that may scare me in the future but presently I do have a TxTag on my truck.

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The IH 35 bridge in Minneapolis that fell was caused by putting to much weight in materials and tools etc on the bridge as they

started on repairs. It was not because of lack of maintenance.

 

Sort of right but sort of wrong. It was because they underbuilt the bridge originally--not following the engineering specifications. Then the governor did not like being told what money needed to be spent to replace the original but undersized brackets so he said something like, "Find me a different answer." THEN when they added the maintenance equipment and started using jackhammers the brackets failed and the bridge fell. Several lives were lost that day. Cheap can be very costly.

 

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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Pay to use, toll roads would be fair

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

SKP 100137. North Ridgeville, Ohio in the summer, sort of and where ever it is warm in the winter.

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Jack the issue with a 'per mile' fee is that city folks get all the roads at the cost of the country folks. And it's the country folks who clock up the most miles simply because they live in the country. City folks also have options while country folks don't.

Ask how far your closest supermarket is. Taxing per mile simply makes it more expensive for country folks.

 

Per gallon tax is the best way. Higher users pay. PROVIDED that it is quarantined for road use only. As some one already said. FAT CHANCE.

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Per gallon tax is the best way. Higher users pay. PROVIDED that it is quarantined for road use only. As some one already said. FAT CHANCE.

Maybe if you can figure a way to collect a per-gallon fee on an electric car that is using the road.

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For all of the opposition here to toll roads, the toll bypass roads around cities here in TX seem to be thriving. I remember a toll bridge in San Diego to Coronado IS. that the fee was highest for a car with 1 person and went down in steps to the lowest fee being for cars with 4 or more people.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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I wish the government would come up with a floating gas tax so the price of fuel could be stabilized. The roller coaster fuel price drives the car manufactures crazy bouncing between building efficient cars and then lack of demand due to low gas prices. The Ethenol plants would stand a better chance of survival with a steady gas price and the economy could better plan it's future with stable fuel prices. Toll roads just drive vehicles to unsafe secondary roads.

Greg

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I wish the government would come up with a floating gas tax so the price of fuel could be stabilized. The roller coaster fuel price drives the car manufactures crazy bouncing between building efficient cars and then lack of demand due to low gas prices. The Ethenol plants would stand a better chance of survival with a steady gas price and the economy could better plan it's future with stable fuel prices. Toll roads just drive vehicles to unsafe secondary roads.

Greg

Some details on what you are proposing would be very helpful.

 

Are you saying that if there was a "floating gas tax" 3 or 4 years ago when the price of gas was $4 versus today when the price of gas is $2, that the federal government would now be imposing a $2 a gallon tax to keep the price of gas at $4?

 

Or on the other hand with the price of gas today at around $2, when the price of oil goes back up, and the price of gas going towards $2.50 or $3, what would the federal government be doing to keep the price of gas at $2.

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Sine the current fuel tax is fairly well accepted, then a per- mile tax would seem to be the easiest path forward. And it should be based on electronic collection. As is widely done today.

 

It should never be able to be used by government for any purpose other than the intended purpose.

 

I think I just heard all of the state and federal legislatures gasp for air :D .

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Some details on what you are proposing would be very helpful.

 

Are you saying that if there was a "floating gas tax" 3 or 4 years ago when the price of gas was $4 versus today when the price of gas is $2, that the federal government would now be imposing a $2 a gallon tax to keep the price of gas at $4?

 

Or on the other hand with the price of gas today at around $2, when the price of oil goes back up, and the price of gas going towards $2.50 or $3, what would the federal government be doing to keep the price of gas at $2.

There are many ways to implement a floating fuel tax. My thoughts (probably not popular) is to target gas at a substainable price say $3.50/gal. If the fuel is costing $2/gal then the tax excess could be stockpiled and when (not if) the fuel price jumps to $5/gal the $$ stockpile could be used to maintain the $3.50 price. The floating tax could also be set up to run a surplus for road maintenance/expenses. A steady fuel price would settle down the economy rollercoaster tremendously. The gov. waste time and $$ forcing CAFE fuel mileage requirements on automakers when a higher fuel price would promote higher fuel efficient cars and promote people to save fuel.

Greg

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We do not pretend to know how the $$ to build and maintain the infrastructure are really used. Anyone of us that does a lot of travel in the RV knows the roads are heavy traveled and there is a lot of construction going on round the country. We did over 5500 miles in one trip this summer spending over 1300.00 in diesel fuel .IMO that is paying our fair share toward road maint however we still feel that toll roads are a fair way to collect $$ for those of us that travel a lot.

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

SKP 100137. North Ridgeville, Ohio in the summer, sort of and where ever it is warm in the winter.

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Per gallon tax is the best way. Higher users pay. PROVIDED that it is quarantined for road use only. As some one already said. FAT CHANCE.

Maybe I'm missing something here but aren't these roughly the same? Aren't country folks using more gallons of gas to drive those extra miles thus paying more fuel tax?

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