Stitcon Elemination, Dirty Injectors, Disel Fuel in the oil...........

[RandyA]

Stiction

Not a word I use in my everyday vocabulary but it keeps popping up in articles and comments I read when attempting to learn more about maintaining the performance of diesel injectors. I keep thinking back to when I had the Volvo shop replace my leaking injector cups. The mechanic told me that my injectors were “extremely dirty”. He advised use of a fuel additive they sell. What occurred to me later is that they were not cleaned – that requires yet another process I did not receive.

 

Now, my engine is (was) running rough. Blackstone found diesel fuel in my oil. At 800K some is expected, but not the amount I had. Talking to Volvo they said, “Yep, you need new injectors – we will accept a mortgage on your house or your first born as a down payment”. We were talking very serious money.

 

At least one but maybe more injectors were believed to not properly atomizing injected fuel. A leaking injector would add diesel that did not burn properly leaving the diesel to run down between the pistons and rings to the crankcase. Remember, at 800K the piston rings are not as tight as they were in 2004 - diesel can migrate to the crankcase. When checking oil the dip stick showed increasing oil levels.

 

Then a buddy of mine that has several of his own HDT’s in commercial service starts telling me how this stuff called Hot Shot’s Secret has resolved injector issues on his trucks that the shop wanted thousands of dollars to fix. He sounds like the guy in a TV infomercial except he is really a smart, not an easily fooled guy that refuses to buy parts and tools from China and only drinks Jim Beam.

 

So, at his prodding, I call Lubrication Specialists, Inc., the folks that make the Snake Oil he is using and speak to one of their Chemical Engineers – supposedly not a sales person. I give him the entire poop on my D12, mileage and recent work performed, along with my concern of higher than normal amounts of fuel showing up in the sample from my recent Blackstone oil analysis.

The guy on the other end of the phone line recommends using 2 QTS of their Diesel Extreme for each 150 gallon tank and adding 1 gallon of their Stiction Eliminator to the engine oil (after taking out a gallon of oil). He claims it is the best product for stiction elimination at the injectors currently on the market (of course he does, he works for the company). He assures me I will see an almost immediate improvement in mileage and performance. They do have a money back guarantee that checks out as OK if it does not clean up the fuel system and injectors within 2K miles. I get to be the judge and jury on the product effectiveness – no gimmicks.

 

I felt like a sucker buying a can of Slick 50. It is more expensive than other fuel & oil treatment products. But, something told me that this stuff just might help get my injectors spraying properly again. I do know that it is outwardly different than Lucas, Diesel 911 or CRC type products. It has an extremely strong chemical smell and a test using maybe an ounce of the fuel additive mixed with a cup of diesel fuel for soaking of a gummed up scooter carburetor cleaned it up like new. Brake cleaner or carburetor cleaner wouldn’t do that

 

I decided what the heck and put the stuff in my oil and fuel as directed then headed out to Florida. I mean, what harm could it do other than dent my pocketbook for the stuff? Now, no lie or hype here – my engine runs better than it ever did. I do not believe a copious amount of diesel fuel is getting into the engine oil. I drained out about a quart of oil at 1,000 miles and checked the viscosity against new oil with a painter’s viscosity cup and stop watch. They matched. Fuel mileage appears to be up. The Computer gave me 8.4 mpg for the trip down. Other trips with stop and go traffic on the same route have ended up being 7.8 and 7.9 mpg. Yes, I record those measurements in my log book. Idle is definitely much smoother and I can now actually feel and see a performance improvement by the seat of my pants method and in the load/acceleration data captured by the Silverleaf VMSpc I run. Apparently my injector(s) are working properly again. Shucks – call it snake oil if you like. The darn stuffed somehow worked in my engine and resoled my problems – at least for now. I would have never believed something in a bottle could fix an injector – but it did and has apparently saved me a pile of money! :)

 

Poo-poo me if you like - it's not my imagination. The snake oil did what it promised to do.

[Randyretired]

OK Randy. I have followed your posts in the past and you have convinced me to try it. My truck is a Cummins with 125 gallon tanks. How much would you recommend in the smaller tanks? My Volvo has 530,000 and it misses a little at all speeds but the oil test didnt show any diesel fuel in the oil.

[MrSeas]

Another testimonial to the benefits of using both oil and fuel additives when you change your oil or put fuel in the tank.
Would have been interesting during your test to have just started with the oil additive and experience the difference.

Then add the fuel system cleaner to see how the fuel additive changed things.
If you are in a "testing" mode next time you change your oil try another additive called "Rev X". It may even reduce your "striction" issue even more.
I know everyone has their own ideas about adding or not adding additives and each will make their own choice.

Maybe the "real world" test may help you decide. Some folks don't like the added expense of the additives.
I also own one of the infamous Ford 6.0 PSD and found out early about the striction issue these engines can have. I became a fast believer in additives. I still have all my original parts and the truck runs great. I will always use additives in all of my stuff.
What's going to happen in the new future when we are forced to use a thinner oil with a less robust additive package?
Time will tell.
YMMV

[MrSeas]

OK Randy. I have followed your posts in the past and you have convinced me to try it. My truck is a Cummins with 125 gallon tanks. How much would you recommend in the smaller tanks? My Volvo has 530,000 and it misses a little at all speeds but the oil test didnt show any diesel fuel in the oil.

May I ask what type and weight of oil you use in your Cummins

Dino or syn?

[RandyA]

OK Randy. I have followed your posts in the past and you have convinced me to try it. My truck is a Cummins with 125 gallon tanks. How much would you recommend in the smaller tanks? My Volvo has 530,000 and it misses a little at all speeds but the oil test didnt show any diesel fuel in the oil.

I'm not trying to convince people to use it. I only wish to share what happened to my engine when I used the product. Some engines may see minimal to no improvement. It will all depend on whether the engine has mechanical or electrical faults or just dirty injectors and fuel system. No snake oil can fix mechanical/electrical issues. I can only tell you that the product worked amazingly well in my engine to resolve problems that were obviously related to stiticon. Your results from using the product may/well be different. That said, adding 64 ounces of the fuel product to 125 gallons would be OK. Probably a stronger mixture than needed but according to the info I was given the ratio is fine. If you want to be precise 54 ounces is the quantity for a full 125 gallon tank.

[RandyA]

Another testimonial to the benefits of using both oil and fuel additives when you change your oil or put fuel in the tank.

Would have been interesting during your test to have just started with the oil additive and experience the difference. Then add the fuel system cleaner to see how the fuel additive changed things.

If you are in a "testing" mode next time you change your oil try another additive called "Rev X". It may even reduce your "striction" even more.

I know everyone has their own ideas about adding or not adding

additives and each will make their own choice. Maybe the "real world" test may help you decide. Some folks don't like the added expense of the additives.

I also own one of the infamous Ford 6.0 PSD and found out early about the striction issue these engines can have. I became a fast believer in additives. I still have all my original parts and the truck runs great. I will always use additives in all of my stuff.

What's going to happen in the new future when we are forced to use a thinner oil with a less robust additive package?

Time will tell.

YMMV

Yes, there are many ways it can be tested and the inclusion or exclusion of variables could certainly alter the outcome. My using two different products can only be a measurement of the two, not just one. Thus, one may wonder which one might have offered the improvement. But, if you choose to just use a fuel system cleaner to polish up your injectors the company recommends using only the Diesel Extreme - that's the stuff I used to clean the scooter carburetor. I'm not trying to convince people to use it. I only wish to share what happened to my engine when I used the product. Some engines may see minimal to no improvement. It will all depend on whether the engine has mechanical or electrical faults or just dirty injectors and fuel system. No snake oil can fix mechanical/electrical issues. I can only tell you that the products have worked amazingly well in my 800,000 mile engine to resolve problems that are believed to be related to stiction. Your results from using the product may well be different. That said, adding 64 ounces of the fuel product to 125 gallons would be OK. Probably a stronger mixture than needed but according to the info I was given the ratio is fine. A dose of 54 ounces would be more precise for 125 gallons. It appears that 2.34 fluid ounces per gallon of diesel is the formula for Diesel Extreme. We found pint quart bottles on sale at Tractor Supply in Melbourne, FL last week for $12. That is a really good price. Our "crew" that is gathered here for the winter bought them out and then got a bunch of rain checks.

[rickeieio]

I've had only two experiences with oil additives, one positive and not so much.

 

Many years ago, I had a Ford pickup with a 460 engine. At around 40k miles, it developed a lifter noise. My grease supplier convinced me to try his "friction modifier" in the oil. Using it, I noticed my oil pressure fluctuating as I drove, slowly rising and falling about 15 psi with a warm engine. It did nothing for the lifter noise. I went back to straight oil, pressure stabilized. Then I added a can of snake oil, aka Slick 50. Within 100 miles, the lifters were quiet, and remained so for roughly 50k miles, even though I only ran the Slick 50 in one oil change (back then I changed the oil every 2k). Ran another oil change with Slick 50 and all was quiet again.

 

Fuel additives though, can work wonders. I have several old motorcycles, ranging from 1 cylinder to 6, and from 90cc to 80 ci. A drizzle of Sea Foam in the tank does wonders. I've not tried it in any of my diesels.

 

So, I believe some additives can work, but certainly not all.

[SuiteSuccess]

Randy,

 

With a gallon of chemical in your oil can you trust your next Blackstone analysis?

[beyerjf]

A perfect anecdotal story. There is a very easy to determine if this product had any positive impact on the operation of the engine. Do an oil analysis before its use, and another at the next oil change interval after using the product and compare the results. I know you are going to do that, so I will eagerly await the results.

[Jack Mayer]

I'm with Jeff. The test will tell the story.

 

There is no reason that an additive could not have a positive effect on some conditions. Maybe this is one of them. But additives are not "Magic". If something is really wrong it will show up again. Soon. If it is just dirt, then you may have cured it - at least temporarily.

 

I use fuel additives as appropriate, for winter conditions, water, algae, etc. And they do work.

[GlennWest]

Seen a few dirty injectors on ldt "fixed" with additives. I agreed if mechanical or electrical won't help

[chevy3500]

Yes, there are many ways it can be tested and the inclusion or exclusion of variables could certainly alter the outcome. My using two different products can only be a measurement of the two, not just one. Thus, one may wonder which one might have offered the improvement. But, if you choose to just use a fuel system cleaner to polish up your injectors the company recommends using only the Diesel Extreme - that's the stuff I used to clean the scooter carburetor. I'm not trying to convince people to use it. I only wish to share what happened to my engine when I used the product. Some engines may see minimal to no improvement. It will all depend on whether the engine has mechanical or electrical faults or just dirty injectors and fuel system. No snake oil can fix mechanical/electrical issues. I can only tell you that the products have worked amazingly well in my 800,000 mile engine to resolve problems that are believed to be related to stiction. Your results from using the product may well be different. That said, adding 64 ounces of the fuel product to 125 gallons would be OK. Probably a stronger mixture than needed but according to the info I was given the ratio is fine. A dose of 54 ounces would be more precise for 125 gallons. It appears that 2.34 fluid ounces per gallon of diesel is the formula for Diesel Extreme. We found pint bottles on sale at Tractor Supply in Melbourne, FL last week for $12. That is a really good price. Our "crew" that is gathered here for the winter bought them out and then got a bunch of rain checks.

Is this correct dose? 2.34oz per gallon would be 292.5 oz wouldn't it? 0.432 oz per gallon would equal 54 ounces total, or am I reading something wrong?

[Randyretired]

MrSeas, You asked about the oil I run in my Cummins. It is an ISX and I use Rotella T 15-40 dino. Why do you ask?

[MrSeas]

MrSeas, You asked about the oil I run in my Cummins. It is an ISX and I use Rotella T 15-40 dino. Why do you ask?

 

Do you do oil samples?

Do you add any "additives" and if so what brand?

Just curious...I'm funny that way!

 

Thanks

[MrSeas]

Some info on fuel "cleaning" from an earlier thread.......

 

http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=126165&hl=

[Randyretired]

MrSeas, I don't use additives but I do oil samples evey other oil change. Oil analysis has been good. The misses are minor but I can hear it and it bugs me. Had the shop do an injector cut out test and it passed. A couple of years ago I removed the fuel filter and added Seafoam. That helped some so I guess the injectors may be a little dirty. I am going to try the oil and fuel additive.

[RandyA]

Is this correct dose? 2.34oz per gallon would be 292.5 oz wouldn't it? 0.432 oz per gallon would equal 54 ounces total, or am I reading something wrong?

Yes, you are correct. I just wanted to see if you were paying attention .

[RandyA]

Randy,

 

With a gallon of chemical in your oil can you trust your next Blackstone analysis?

The chemical supposedly has a viscosity equal to my 10W-40 engine oil. In fact they claim it has significant viscosity enhancers. I'm not a chemical engineer and fully realize how product representatives make questionable claims to close a sale - I am cautious and will need to wait and see. I don't think it will make any difference but I will let Blackstone know when I send in my next sample. The oil analysis they run checks for various metals and contamination giving not only the usefulness of the oil but how my engine is wearing. The oil additive should not add to those values. It will be next September or October before my next sample is sent to Blackstone. I change oil and all filters once a year long before the specified maximum mileage for a change. When I send a sample to Blackstone I give them the actual mileage on the oil - usually about 7K to 10K. I have never needed to add oil before my annual change interval.

 

Jack - Cleaning away dirt or soot is always temporary. That is why we take our weekly Saturday night bath. No matter how clean we get the dirt always comes back .

[phoenix2013]

Sometimes you just have to try something. A good friend of mine was trying to persuade me to put "veggie oil" into my N-14 Cummins, said "it's good for it". I was skeptical and resisted. Finally he prevailed in Florida, we went to BJs and got bunch of 5 gallon jugs of cooking oil and dumped it into the tank. I couldn't believe how peppy the engine became INSTANTLY and since I have a weedburner I also got that whiff as if I was passing by McDonald's roof exhaust from their fryer.

Since the diesel is back down to $2.50 per gallon I did not repeat the "experiment". When it was $5 bucks a gallon, there were serious discussions about tanker full's of "veggie oil" as alternative fuel. Probably not realistic now with all this EPA crap on the trucks, but that old N-14 "loved it".

[RandyA]

Sometimes you just have to try something. A good friend of mine was trying to persuade me to put "veggie oil" into my N-14 Cummins, said "it's good for it". I was skeptical and resisted. Finally he prevailed in Florida, we went to BJs and got bunch of 5 gallon jugs of cooking oil and dumped it into the tank. I couldn't believe how peppy the engine became INSTANTLY and since I have a weedburner I also got that whiff as if I was passing by McDonald's roof exhaust from their fryer.

Since the diesel is back down to $2.50 per gallon I did not repeat the "experiment". When it was $5 bucks a gallon, there were serious discussions about tanker full's of "veggie oil" as alternative fuel. Probably not realistic now with all this EPA crap on the trucks, but that old N-14 "loved it".

I have run across several reports from seemingly reliable sources that rave about the benefits of veggie oil added to dino diesel. Higher cetane than dino diesel, excellent system scrubber, cleaner exhaust........ just never had the guts to intentionally add it to my tanks. I got a load of 20% bio-diesel at a Pilot station in GA a few years back. Anyway, it didn't work so good ..... at least that was my analysis when my Davco filter clogged up with green goop. It was suggested later that the goop in the filter was due to the "cleaning" action of the bio in my tanks. Maybe it was? Anyway, I now look to see what the pump has posted on bio blends. Last year I started filling from a Flying-J pump in VA and noticed the deep green color of the fuel. Stopped filling and shut the pump off. Drove to a TA further down the pike, fuel was the expected nice amber color. Now that I finally have my tanks clean inside and free of antifreeze and water from once leaking injector cups maybe the bio-diesel would be OK - just don't care to try it again after experiencing the initial mess.

[rickeieio]

MrSeas, I don't use additives but I do oil samples evey other oil change. Oil analysis has been good. The misses are minor but I can hear it and it bugs me. Had the shop do an injector cut out test and it passed. A couple of years ago I removed the fuel filter and added Seafoam. That helped some so I guess the injectors may be a little dirty. I am going to try the oil and fuel additive.

 

If you can, have the clear tubes put it the fuel lines on the pressure and return sides of IFSM block. Look for more bubbles on the return side. If so, the fix ain't cheap, unless you get lucky and it's just something like a check valve not seating properly. I just went through it. Slightly rough idle, with a hint of surging, and a roughness under hard pull. Worse when warm.

[noteven]

My little Cummins in my 2006 manual trans won ton would like to say thanks RandyA. He was showing unusual symptoms: exhaust stinkyer than usual on startup, couple misfires one morning at about 5F cold start, bit of a haze of smoke pulling to 2500 rpm in 4th and 5th, kind of lazy on the "governor" ifting the rig from standing start...that sort of thing. I checked out Hot Shot's website from RandyA's recommendation. I have done the first Diesel Exreme 40 gals and the engine is running noticeably better. First thing noticed is start and proper smooth idle on cold starts last 2 mornings. About 45F ambient.

[NoDirectionHome]

Let's assume the Diesel Extreme has knocked some varnish and carbon from the injectors and freed up your rings that were sticking. I'd be highly inclined to get "that" oil out of my engine earlier than I had planned. Just a thought.

[lappir]

Hopefully the filters will hold onto anything that was freed up. A partially dirty filter does a better job of filtering they say.

 

Rod

 

Let's assume the Diesel Extreme has knocked some varnish and carbon from the injectors and freed up your rings that were sticking. I'd be highly inclined to get "that" oil out of my engine earlier than I had planned. Just a thought.

[rickeieio]

Hopefully the filters will hold onto anything that was freed up. A partially dirty filter does a better job of filtering they say.

 

Rod

 

Correct. But, what portion of the oil actually passes through the filter?

 

I'm not 100% sure of the following, but have read/heard about this, so please correct me if I have it wrong:

 

As I understand, perhaps 10% of the oil passes through at any one time, the rest is by-passed. This system was developed by the Pur-O-Later company. Pure Oil, sooner or Later. But, the filter takes out solids, doing nothing for any changes which occur in the chemical nature of the oil. Dissolved carbon, etc. may not get filtered out.