Full-timing in a TT?

[kb0zke]

We're full-timers, currently in a no-slide 40' MH. When we bought it, it was the right choice for us. Circumstances have changed, though, and a MH is no longer the best choice. I'm not particularly sold on a 5'er, so that leaves a TT as the only other choice. Both of us have always liked Airstreams, and I'm on airforums, so I've asked lots of questions there. Besides the Airstream and Arctic Fox, what other brands should we think about? We'll be buying used, not new, and I'm thinking F250/350 (used) for the tow vehicle. The truck will be a four-door 4WD with automatic.

 

Suggestions?

[Kirk W]

While we have neighbors who lived full-time in a 36' Airstream for more than 10 years, I am not a fan of them. They are incredibly expensive and have less storage for the size than any other travel trailer that I know of. I would look at Heartland, Open Range, possibly Jayco.

[kb0zke]

Thanks, Kirk. Yes, the 34' Airstream is the one we're thinking about. Heartland only rates three of their 5'ers for FT use (none of the TT models) which has us a bit concerned. We won't be buying new, but we're concerned about quality. I've heard mixed reviews on Open Range. We like the Journeyer. Have to check out the Jayco models.

[airstream harry]

Out side storage is a problem with Airstream TT. That is one reason so many Airstreamers use suburbans. They also put caps on pickups. I know many Streamers who full time.

c u on the road

[BlueLghtning]

I've been watching this couple (The More We Explore) that full times a Flying Cloud Airstream. For them, they felt the quality of an Airstream was just so much nicer than many other travel trailers, so they decided to go with it. They do currently use a Ford Van with a 7.3 Diesel as their tow vehicle. This couple tends to mountain bike a lot and lately they've been contemplating on changing tow vehicles as they want more room in the van so they can do a couple months in the NE without the airstream, but still carry all their camping gear, mountain bikes, etc. The vehicles they are looking at means they'll have to downsize their airstream to a smaller/lighter one also. It's interesting to see what they are going to do.

[theeyres]

I do believe Arctic Fox builds their TT's to the same standard as their Fivers so I would sure keep them in mind. We full-timed in an AF fiver and had 0 problems with it. It did seem to hold the heat very well and also cooled well and nothing fell apart ( should say we had no problems that were not owner caused. LOL There were a few of those!!). If you get a cap for your truck you will have plenty of storage--just not quite as convenient as in a fiver. You will sure have more room than in an Airstream...

[SWharton]

Make sure you fit into an Airstream. I know of someone who was all set to get an Airstream, went to the dealer to look at them and found out they couldn't stand up in the shower and felt they lost so much storage with the curved roof. This was after they researched for quite a while, had to go back to researching.

[Second Chance]

For reasons mentioned above, I wouldn't consider full-timing in any travel trailer other than something from Northwood Manufacturing (i.e. Arctic Fox). My sister-in-law and her husband have a large Airstream and, while the quality is excellent, they have about 1/3 the storage space they would have in an Arctic Fox of the same length. Without slides, the Airstream also feels much more claustrophobic.

 

Rob

[LindaH]

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For reasons mentioned above, I wouldn't consider full-timing in any travel trailer other than something from Northwood Manufacturing (i.e. Arctic Fox).

 

I'd also include the lines from Northwood's sister company, Outdoors RV Manufacturing, http://outdoorsrvmfg.com/.

[kb0zke]

Thanks for all the ideas. Please keep them coming.

 

We've been in a 34' Airstream, and there is no problem with the interior for us. We fit in the shower, and we actually prefer no slides. That's part of the reason we bought this Foretravel. Airstream did make some models with a single slide for a few years, but they didn't sell well, and haven't made any for a few years now. As I understand it, if there were enough people who ordered one they would make a few. Since we're looking at USED coaches and trucks, I suppose we may have to take one with a slide, but if all things were equal we'd take the one without a slide.

 

Linda, do you know which is the higher line, Wind River or Black Stone?

[LindaH]

 

Linda, do you know which is the higher line, Wind River or Black Stone?

 

No, I don't. Look at the brochures and note the differences in the amenities, plus look at a few sales sites and compare prices on similar models. You could, of course, call the manufacturer and inquire.

[trostberg]

I have fulltime this past year in a 21 Ft Roadtrek ClassB. I guess it all depend on what you have to bring with you.

[Kirk W]

. Heartland only rates three of their 5'ers for FT use (none of the TT models) which has us a bit concerned. We won't be buying new, but we're concerned about quality. I've heard mixed reviews on Open Range. We like the Journeyer. Have to check out the Jayco models.

I'm not an authority on fifth wheels but have known quite a few happy Heartland owners and I also lived in an RV rated as snowbird for 12 years and had no big issues. The difference in the two is mostly in how it show wear & tear and mine did show that it had been lived in and probably did have more maintenance issues than a truly full-time unit would have had. There are plenty of folks who live in units of "lesser" quality ratings and do so just fine but realize that the wear factor is greater and maintenance more frequent.

 

One of the things that I have observed over the years is that every brand has some supporters and some detractors. It is surprising how often we tend to think that nothing is quite as good as the RV that we have. When we are happy we tend to think that everyone should buy what we chose. We lived for 12 years in an RV that many of the experts on forums said was all wrong. Even after several years on the road there were still those who said that we chose wrong. What matters is that you and yours are happy with it and that you understand what the level of quality of RV will require of you, Same thing if shopping used or new. Once you hear my opinion or that of others, weigh the relevance to you as we can't all be right and it won't be any of us who live in the choice you make.

 

How many of the experts would suggest that anyone should buy a 19' RV without slides to spend as long as 5 consecutive months in with 2 people? As usual, we did things all wrong according to experts, as that is exactly what we now travel in and we have really enjoyed it and continue to do so. The point is that my opinion really is only useful for research as if you are happy then you have the right RV.

[rbertalotto]

Native Americans FullTimed in a hide tent! You can fulltime in a cardboard box.......

 

I fell in love with the whole Airstream mystique. But then I went and looked at them. The design lends itself to great aerodynamics, but not storage space. And I also felt very claustrophobic. I soon realized that owning an AS is more a life choice and a bit of bragging rights more than a practical RV experience. Nothing wrong with that, but from a practical, financial and banging your head when you take a shower point of view, there are much better choices.

 

BTW, as stated above, one manufacturer stated that their trailer was not considered for Full Timing???? What does that mean. I can understand a four season trailer, but whast makes one trailer a FT and another not? Just wondering...

[SWharton]

I believe the "full time" is a legaleze cop out term. I have never seen a definition of the difference is between a fulltime vs. a long time TT or 5th. Would be curious if there is any. Probably just marketing..............

 

We bought a Heartland 5th wheel in 2008, was not rated fulltime but it was, at that time, one of their most popular lines for long timers and fulltimers. Never a problem.

 

I personally wouldn't obsess about fulltime. I see lots of Heartland and Montana's on the road that I know are not designated fulltime but people are happily fulltiming in them

[Yarome]

Probably just marketing..............

 

X2. Just a marketing ploy. I've seen some really cruddy quality, very expensive, rigs that were classed as "all-season" "full-timer" rigs. It's not always the case.. some really are built to higher standards, but I've also seen some VERY well built rigs that didn't advertise as all-season that would be very well suited.

 

Slapping on an enclosed underbelly, cheap double pane windows, solid wood drawer faces, and higher quality carpet does not a full time rig make. Ie., drawer construction and slide mechanisms will determine the quality/longevity vs. what type of drawer face is used.

 

A lot of people get sucked in to the "is this all-season and/or full-time rated" game though. To each their own, but I get really leery when an RV comes with a "label".

[gjhunter01]

My best advise is to go to a large rv dealer and inspect their used campers thoroughly inside and out. It will become quickly evident which ones are good quality. We did that 5 years ago and bought a used Cameo fifth wheel on the spot which was an unknown brand to us at the time. We later confirmed what we had observed, that the Carriage brand was a known quality RV builder and have been very happy with the rv since.

Greg

[freestoneangler]

Native Americans FullTimed in a hide tent! You can fulltime in a cardboard box.......

 

I fell in love with the whole Airstream mystique. But then I went and looked at them. The design lends itself to great aerodynamics, but not storage space. And I also felt very claustrophobic. I soon realized that owning an AS is more a life choice and a bit of bragging rights more than a practical RV experience. Nothing wrong with that, but from a practical, financial and banging your head when you take a shower point of view, there are much better choices.

 

BTW, as stated above, one manufacturer stated that their trailer was not considered for Full Timing???? What does that mean. I can understand a four season trailer, but whast makes one trailer a FT and another not? Just wondering...

 

That's what we found as well. The Airstreams just did not feel as roomy and had poor storage space. They are pricey even on the used market. We only plan to use a TT for a few months of FT use in AZ during winter and then short trips during the year. Bragging rights isn't even on our list. Just looking for good value and reliability.

[Kirk W]

I believe the "full time" is a legaleze cop out term. I have never seen a definition of the difference is between a fulltime vs. a long time TT or 5th. Would be curious if there is any. Probably just marketing..............

Actually, the different classifications originated with the RV Consumer Group in an effort to find a way to allow the consumer to compare different quality range RVs across manufacturers, brands, and models. They wanted to devise a way to price compare apples to apples, or similar quality units to each other across brand lines. Some of those groups have been adopted by various parts of the industry today.

[SWharton]

I went to RV Consumer Group and see that they have their definition of "full time" but I have never seen a mfg. say a rig is "certified full time by RV Consumer Group". When a mfg. declares a rig full time is it based on the Rv Consumer Group criteria and rating, probably not. One can live in any rig full time if you understand the limitations of that rig. I go back to the Heartland and Montana, many on the road being used for full time or long time travel. Most probably not blessed by RV Consumer Group as full time. As usual, it is a personal choice as to what one will accept in a rig.

 

The other question is how many people looking for a rig have ever heard of the RV Consumer Group and are willing to join them when doing research for a rig.

[trailertraveler]

...I wouldn't consider full-timing in any travel trailer other than something from Northwood Manufacturing (i.e. Arctic Fox)...

As we have traveled across the country since 2004, we have met and observed a lot more folks living full-time in travel trailers than one would think based on the representation on this forum and surveys of Escapee members. Most are working folks. A fair number have their families with them. They buy what they can afford and make do with that. Many brands are represented and the high end brands listed in this and other threads on this forum are relatively rare. Among those that own 5th wheels, Montana is about the highest end unit we see and most of those are older models

 

...The other question is how many people looking for a rig have ever heard of the RV Consumer Group and are willing to join them when doing research for a rig...

Most of the working full-timers we have met do not consider themselves RVers. They do not belong to RV groups like Escapees, Good Sam, etc., and do not participate in RVing forums. I don't recall every discussing the RV Consumer Group, but I seriously doubt that many of them have consulted it.

 

...The design lends itself to great aerodynamics, but not storage space...

Storage space always seems to come up in any discussion of travel trailers. To me, just as important as storage space is the cargo carrying capacity. Many travel trailers and even some 5th wheels and motorhomes do not have enough carrying capacity to actually fully use the amount of storage space they have.

[Kirk W]

I went to RV Consumer Group and see that they have their definition of "full time" but I have never seen a mfg. say a rig is "certified full time by RV Consumer Group". When a mfg. declares a rig full time is it based on the Rv Consumer Group criteria and rating, probably not. One can live in any rig full time if you understand the limitations of that rig. I go back to the Heartland and Montana, many on the road being used for full time or long time travel. Most probably not blessed by RV Consumer Group as full time. As usual, it is a personal choice as to what one will accept in a rig.

I did not say that the manufacturers use the standard defined by the RVCG, only that the classification term was first used by them to break the different price/quality levels into groupings that would allow a consumer to compare prices of different brands within the same quality group. As a member of that group for several years, nowhere have I ever seen anything from them to say that someone needs to buy a particular classification of rig for their intended use. That was never their intention, only a way to compare one manufacturer's product to another. Just as you can't compare the quality of interiors in a Focus to that of a Cadillac based upon the idea that one is a Ford and the other a GM product, you can't fairly compare an Allegro to an Essex and say that Tiffin builds poorer quality than does Newmar. By using the RVCG classifications you would be comparing the Allegro to the Canyon Star as the two fall into the same RVCG classification.

 

RV manufacturers do not have any binding requirement to define any of their terms in the same manner. There is some leveling in the RIVA standards, but since that group is the industrial association for manufacturers, standards are very carefully designed to avoid government regulations with as little regulation of the member manufacturers as they can get by with. It is no accident that manufactures do not share some commonly accepted classification system for the various price/quality level sold. It is interesting to note that the same manufacturers who seem to have the best reputation for quality and customer support are also the ones who display the results from the RVCG and who allow the RVCG staff to inspect and observe their manufacturing process.

 

 

The other question is how many people looking for a rig have ever heard of the RV Consumer Group and are willing to join them when doing research for a rig.

While it probably isn't a majority of customers, it is a growing number and that fact has impacted the standards of the industry, partly because they have also caused closer scrutiny of the RV industry by agencies that enforce safety regulations. They along with the folks from RV-SEF have been the driving force behind RV consumer education and the raising of standards in the industry. In the years before those two organizations became large enough to have significant influence on the RV industry, it was not uncommon for RVs to exceed the units GVWR when they left the assembly line with nothing at all inside. Even more common were units that had cargo capacities too small to even allow for loading of groceries and/or occupants. As I look back to our earliest years of RV experience, I consider myself to have been quite lucky in never having had a major problem but I did experience some pretty ugly handling issues. Our first motorhome was the first RV that I ever weighed and with full fuel tank and empty water and waste tanks, only a few items inside that were kept there all of the time but not loaded for travel, it weighed in at 341# under the listed GVWR. That RV was built in 1987 by one of our best known RV manufacturers still in business today.

 

Likely enough, most first time buyers are not aware of either of those two groups and most are pretty ignorant of safety and handling limitations but thanks to the efforts of the two organizations, few experienced owners remain uneducated and the information is available to those who make the effort to learn. You can never protect those who are unwilling to use the resources made available to them. As the influence of these groups has grown and the education efforts of Escapees, FMCA, Good Sam, and a few other groups like them have increased, the standards in the RV industry have improved, not out of any acquisition of ethical standards but from the need to build a better product to stay in business. Even the uneducated novice buyer benefits from the results of such organizations, without even knowing that they exist.

[2gypsies]

We've full-timed in both a Travel Supreme and a Newmar and neither specified they were for full-timers although many, many used them as such.

 

We believe the 'full-timer' mention in brochures is definitely a sales gimmick.

[trostberg]

As I am checking into fulltime insurance now that I am selling my home, they define fulltimer as being in your RV 150 days in a year. I am guessing there are a number of people that do not consider 150 days fulltime. Every group probably has their own definitions to fit their needs.

[Kirk W]

Every group probably has their own definitions to fit their needs.

Exactly!