MDT - class 5-6 - Newbie - Important things to know? License, insurance?

[FlyFishn]

Hi all. I am on some other forums and have been researching the feasibility of going to a big 5th wheel for full time residency, mostly staying in one place (on my own property, but according to a lot of threads I have read this may be problematic finding property that has codes etc that allow living in an RV). My truck now is a 2011 F350 CC LB SRW 6.7. I am finding that what I am looking to do is not going to be a wise choice in a light/weekend-warrior/fair-weather grade RV. I've been interested in the 5th wheels in the 40ft range. Those like DRV in that range are triple axle 5th wheels with GVWR's up to 24,000lbs. That will push the limits of most class 3-4 trucks.

 

Those of you that are hauling with class 5-6 trucks - what is there to know that is different than a regular "puckup truck"? It looks like insurance is going to be a bit tricky with the weight class vs private use. As for licensing - If I go this route weight will be in the 30-40,000lb range and, being over 26,001lbs, will require a class A license in most states? Those of you that only haul your property (RV, boat, what have you) with your MDT - do you have a CDL or non-CDL? What steps did you go through to get it?

 

I have never been in an MDT before. What I gather from some threads is road noise varies between brands (kenworth, international, peterbilt, freightliner, volvo, etc). How does handling on the road go? One of my prior jobs was driving a 1 ton dually with a 2 car gooseneck trailer all over the eastern half of the US. That was a rough ride at times. I know there are air-ride style 5th wheel hitches (trailer saver, among others). How do the MDT's do with fixed 5th wheel or gooseneck hitches in comparison? Are the cabs suspended from the frame to isolate the jerking? Does the extra weight of the rig dampen the jerking?

 

Are there any economical routes to get in to an MDT? Some specs that are important to me are a driven front axle (4x4, or 6x6 - not sure how the classify by axle corner/point or tire), locking diff a plus, crew cab (and comfortable back seat for adults to sit in on the road all day, not a hard bench), power windows, AC, etc.

 

What is considered high mileage for an MDT? What kinds of life expectancy can one expect out of a MDT? Are there known-to-be-reliable engines and transmissions? Ones to run away from fast?

 

I see there are a lot of engine and transmission choices on new trucks. Is there any baseline for hp and torque for being able to pull a big/heavy 5th wheel and not bog down? After I drove the car hauler for a couple years I really appreciated the power of a diesel - I've had 2 since (6.4 and now 6.7 powerstroke). I like being able to set my truck on cruise and let the turbo spool up to get up a hill with a load and know I have plenty of power. How does that match up to how MDT's can perform?

 

Lots of questions, I know. I am full of ideas and open to learn.

[skp51443]

Before you look at MDTs give the HDT forum here a serious look, the HDTs are a much more viable option for most people than an MDT is.

Getting a powered front axle is no problem, putting a fiver behind one runs into pretty much unsolvable bed height issues.

MDT lifetime varies a bit but somewhere around 500K if you get one with a good engine, not one designed for low-mileage local use with a light duty engine.

 

Power, well we had 275 / 800 and were quite happy with that but it did end up at 35 MPH on 6% grades. You can get an MDT with a lot heftier engine but it will cost you and limit your brand and chassis choices.

 

None of these things are an issue on a HDT, gobs of power, lots of gears, superior brakes and an engine brake, far better ride quality and noise levels.

[ms60ocb]

You are on the right track as with weight you will need the braking power. As far as driving I previously had a F350 dually before buying the Class 5. The RV does not control the truck anymore.

Clay

[grumpydoc]

Flyfishn, welcome to the forums. You will find a lot friendly and knowledgeable folks here. As I see it there are at least several areas of concern for you to consider,

Budget-in general you will find MDTs are more expensive than conversion of a used HDT

Registration-used HDT registration can get tricky in some states, especially if you try to register it as a MH

Insurance-it can get pricey and tricky for a used commercial vehicle in some areas/states

Drivers license-in some states, like Texas a special license is required. In others like my home state of KY I can drive our MDT on my regular DL.

If you plan to haul a vehicle on the back of the truck you are pretty much stuck with an HDT.

In general all HDTs will have enough torque to haul any heavy 5er however MDTs with smaller engines will struggle keeping up speed on the steeper grades.

I personally would want air ride seats and air cab and at least rear air suspension on a truck and would use a heavy duty air hitch. I have not noticed jerking or chucking with any of the MDTs we have owned. We have had three Freightliner crewcab trucks and have enjoyed using them in our travels. I would recommend the M 2 112 with the DD12 engine-1850 torque. But as mentioned before they are very expensive new and not a lot cheaper used Best Wishes, Jay

[FlyFishn]

None of these things are an issue on a HDT, gobs of power, lots of gears, superior brakes and an engine brake, far better ride quality and noise levels.

It looks like the HDT's (semi trucks) need to be converted to RV duty by way of singling the rear axles. They also don't come with stock crew cabs. Are powered front axles more common than I think? What kinds of costs are there going to be in "building"/"converting" an HDT for making the kind of hauler I am looking in to? How long would it take to have something like that built?

 

You are on the right track as with weight you will need the braking power. As far as driving I previously had a F350 dually before buying the Class 5. The RV does not control the truck anymore.

Clay

 

Thanks for the info Clay. From your avatar it looks like you have a DRV. How do you like it? Did you have anything before the DRV? What led you there? Can you be more specific on your trucks? What are the GVWR's, rear axle ratings, and GCWR's of the rigs you have? Is that an M2-106 in the avatar?

[gjhunter01]

My advise is to figure how many miles you plan to travel each year, then size a suitable truck. The rig choice is not a permanent choice, you can always opt to upgrade or downgrade later. Your original post said you plan to stay in one place most of the time which doesn't warrant a oversize truck.

For our situation after full timing 4 years and weighing in at 25k gross, a 3500 dually pickup works fine. We also stay in one place for 2 months and overall plan to circle the US only once every two years. I admit that crossing Donners Pass in CA was a struggle (25 mph), but that is a rare event for us. If your trailer brakes work good, going down hill should not be a problem.

Greg

[skp51443]

The HDT forum here has answers to all your conversion issues, crew cabs that is ones with four doors aren't something I've seen but 2 door units with big condos are common.

 

Powered front axles are an option fora variety of trucks, finding something with one that is suitable for RV use used might be hard, new shouldn't be a problem finding one but either case the bed height on MDT or HDT is likely going to be unusable with a fiver.

 

Time to do the conversion is really up to you, a few days for something simple if you can schedule the work to a couple months for something fancy with a car lift. Again there are plenty of stories as well as the resource guide over in the HDT area.

 

Aside from the driven front axle you should be able to get an MDT or HDT that will work for you.

[Sinbad5024]

It looks like the HDT's (semi trucks) need to be converted to RV duty by way of singling the rear axles. They also don't come with stock crew cabs. Are powered front axles more common than I think? What kinds of costs are there going to be in "building"/"converting" an HDT for making the kind of hauler I am looking in to? How long would it take to have something like that built?

 

 

Thanks for the info Clay. From your avatar it looks like you have a DRV. How do you like it? Did you have anything before the DRV? What led you there? Can you be more specific on your trucks? What are the GVWR's, rear axle ratings, and GCWR's of the rigs you have? Is that an M2-106 in the avatar?

 

An HDT does not have to be singled. Ours is still a double. We looked at an MDT for along time, but decided on the HDT due to price, hauling capabilities and space inside the cab. We have a lot more space and comfort than a crewcab. We also have the booth/workstation and many of the amenities that an RV has without having to stop frequently. Enough room for the 3 of us, plus the dog. I also talked to owners of MDTs in many locations and different trailers that they hauled and the mileage was the same of better with an HDT.

 

As far as building it, you can buy one already built or buy one that isn't and build it over time. We chose the latter as we want to build it in a way that fits our needs. The bed will come later, to haul motorcycles and a Smart car in the future. That is also why we chose to keep it tandem.

 

The HDT forum and Heavy Hauler Resource Guide can give you a lot of information on getting it titled as a MH. I have a friend who is an insurance agent and we are going through him for insurance. There are a few companies out there that will cover an HDT as an RV. Just a few things to think about.

 

We looked for quite a while for a MDT that would fit our needs. In the long run, it was cheaper to go with an HDT. Do your research. You will find a lot of choices, opinions and ideas, but choose what works best for you and your family. Good luck on your decision.

[FlyFishn]

Powered front axles are an option fora variety of trucks, finding something with one that is suitable for RV use used might be hard, new shouldn't be a problem finding one but either case the bed height on MDT or HDT is likely going to be unusable with a fiver.

 

If the hitch is attached to the frame rails, and a pickup style bed is attached to the same frame rails (looking under my pickup the bed deck is only a few inches above the frame) - what would make a bed on a MDT or HDT that much higher?

 

On the other side of the token, I have seen people block axles on 5th wheels to level them out - new truck sits higher, add 2-3" blocks to trailer axles. How high is too high to block a trailer? What about MorRide?

[skp51443]

You rarely get a bed with a big truck unless you order through a body-builder so save that for your design phase. Most folks set their hitches either flush on top of the rails or on a recessed mount between the rails. That helps but you can only go so far before whatever you added as a bed doesn't matter as you are hitting the frame rails anyway.

 

With our International MDT I was able to order a low profile suspension package that dropped the frame rail height a bit over 4 inches from a stock 4x2 truck and thus was able to go with the factory frame-saddle mount rather than having to do a flush mount. Without the LP option the saddle would have been a bit high, beyond what our hitch and adjusting the pin-box would accommodate.

 

Go look at a 4x6 MDT and you'll see the frame rails are high, couldn't pull up a simple number for 4x2 and 4x4 as examples. I think you can calculate it from this (about page 90 to start) but I didn't try that.

 

http://bodybuilder.navistar.com/General/Documents/Saleinfo/CT471dates/20140228/CT471/Series/TerraStar/TerraStar.pdf

 

 

Yes, you could raise your fiver, we did that on our 4x4 pickup, about 4 inches, and we were not happy with the results as the fiver was a lot less stable driving down the road and entry/exit was an aggravation with the bottom step so high we ended up carrying a short step with us. For a 4x4 MDT I'd think planning on a foot of extra height over the stock fiver would be a very rough estimate.

 

Since you are thinking of things like ground clearance and traction you should rule out 19.5 wheels and likely low profile tires on whatever wheels you go with too. The axle housing on these trucks is very low, I've seen 19.5s with low profile rubber drag the pumpkin on a speed bump when crossing it at an angle.

 

We hit a lot of back-country roads when looking for fishing spots and more than once I high-centered mine to the point I was afraid I'd get stuck. My Detroit Locker (which sucked for many reasons) saved me from jacking and blocking a couple times before I came to my senses about just where I was going with that truck. I had 22.5s but low profile tires, the additional height from standard tires would have really helped on the axle clearance problem. The front axle was low too, dragging it wasn't a good idea either.

[Bobi and Dick McKee]

Flyfishn, as you can see the suggestions are all over the place, and are all legitimate choices. We have an MDT Sportchassis and love it. 385 hp and 1250 torque takes our 21000 lb. fifth any where were we want to go. The cab is separated from the frame and with air bags front and rear, the air seats and trailer saver hitch it gives a very smooth ride. It all depends on personal choice, what fits your life style and budget. We tow about 10k a year for 5 months in the summer and would never go back to a pickup after towing with the MDT.

 

BTW I assume from the handle you are a fly fisher, me too. If you get out west PM me and maybe we can wet some flies together.

[ms60ocb]

Thanks for the info Clay. From your avatar it looks like you have a DRV. How do you like it? Did you have anything before the DRV? What led you there? Can you be more specific on your trucks? What are the GVWR's, rear axle ratings, and GCWR's of the rigs you have? Is that an M2-106 in the avatar?

Yes I have a DRV MS 38PS3 modified with a Dallas Bedroom and Bath. It is 40 foot long and last weighted almost a year ago loaded headed to AZ. I had 5,000# on the pin and a total weight of 20,000# . We bought in Dec 2015 but ordered in July 2015. I had decided to purchase earlier but the purchase of DRV by Thor caused to delay that action 6 months.

We like the MS very well and no comparison to the 2010 37 foot Montana. I felt the Montana was build more for show and designed to be overloaded on the tires and axles. Of course lots of Standard equipment on the DRV makes for a better RV than the Keystone. I travel the same roads and DRV RV ride must be much much better as the internal items stay put. Of course all new items have some short coming. I was back to the factory for repair in June and the primary problem was the Transfer Switch was placed in the same area most of the Heating Ducts crossed. soon the ducts were pinched and no heat to the bedroom. Read the SOITC or http://www.5thwheelforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61 Forums

 

My Truck is a 2015 Freightliner M2 106 Sports Chassis which I bought used earlier this year after after pulled the . I can't tell you a lot of detail and someday I will pick up a built sheet. It is Class 5 19,500 # GVW. The label on the door relates to the Class 5 specs but I have a feeling that maybe the built sheet could relate to a few Class 6 components. I really like handling of the M2 and turning radius is outstanding for parking the RV

Clay

[Bobi and Dick McKee]

We had our 2015 Sportchassis weighed last summer with the trailer fully loaded for the road. The trailer, a 2016 MS RSBS3, came in at 20218lbs. with 50 gallons of fresh water and empty holding tanks. I had the water tank at 1/2 for a worse case. On the road I only carry 10 gallons of water which would bring the weight of the trailer to about 19860. The pin weight was 3700lbs.

 

The M2 came in at 15,480 with 150 gallons of fuel. The GVW of the truck is 19500 as Clay said and the CGWR is 40,000Lbs. Being about 4000 under on the truck and 3000 under on the CGWR makes me feel very comfortable. Dick

[ms60ocb]

We had our 2015 Sportchassis weighed last summer with the trailer fully loaded for the road. The trailer, a 2016 MS RSBS3, came in at 20218lbs. with 50 gallons of fresh water and empty holding tanks. I had the water tank at 1/2 for a worse case. On the road I only carry 10 gallons of water which would bring the weight of the trailer to about 19860. The pin weight was 3700lbs.

 

The M2 came in at 15,480 with 150 gallons of fuel. The GVW of the truck is 19500 as Clay said and the CGWR is 40,000Lbs. Being about 4000 under on the truck and 3000 under on the CGWR makes me feel very comfortable. Dick

As I read your numbers your truck weighted 15,480, RV disconnected and weighted 19,180 with the RV. Combined total weight on the ten wheels, 35,998 # ( with the 50 gallon of water). Thus your numbers would be your under the truck GVW by 320 # and 4000# under CGWR.

My truck weighted 14,360# (full of fuel) Add my 5,000# pin I was 140 # below the 19,500 GVW My actual Combined weight figured to be 14,360 plus 20,180 or 34,540 # or 5,460 under the CGWR.

For the individual axle weight on the rv, I can't locate the weight slip right now but I had something 8,060 and 7,120#. I did quite a bit of weight transferring in the RV but haven't been on the scales since. I would like to get a individual wheel weight maybe this winter as I think the off door side of the RV will be heavy especially if Refrigerator is full.

The original question by FlyFishn, I have Blue Sky insurance on both Truck & RV. They would not insure individual vehicles.

Clay

[FlyFishn]

The original question by FlyFishn, I have Blue Sky insurance on both Truck & RV. They would not insure individual vehicles.

 

So you are insured on the road as a combination? What if you want to build an outbuilding of some kind and use your truck to pull an excavator? Or you hook up a dump trailer and go cut some trees for winter firewood? Or if you help your aunt move with a box trailer? Or if your daily driver has a transmission go out and ends up in the shop for a week and a half? Or you want to haul your boat across the country on vacation (maybe behind your 5th wheel)? IE - non-commercial use, but private/personal duties... Are you covered?

 

OK on the weights. It looks like those class 5's get pretty close on GVWR weights pretty fast with heavy pin weights. Then add in people and gear in the trucks. Unless those weights given for the "trucks" were really loaded with people for travel. The left over towing capacity seems reasonable. Though, a class 6 may give the safest weight clearances and room for expansion.

[ms60ocb]

 

So you are insured on the road as a combination?

Yes what I implied by that BlueSky would not insure the truck if the RV was insured by others. My truck is my Daily Driver, My wife is also insured and able to drive with her standard drivers license because the truck is class 5 with Hydraulic brakes. She cannot pull the the fifth wheel with her drivers license.

My Truck was fully loaded weighted but something to watch.

[Chad Heiser]

 

So you are insured on the road as a combination? What if you want to build an outbuilding of some kind and use your truck to pull an excavator? Or you hook up a dump trailer and go cut some trees for winter firewood? Or if you help your aunt move with a box trailer? Or if your daily driver has a transmission go out and ends up in the shop for a week and a half? Or you want to haul your boat across the country on vacation (maybe behind your 5th wheel)? IE - non-commercial use, but private/personal duties... Are you covered?

 

OK on the weights. It looks like those class 5's get pretty close on GVWR weights pretty fast with heavy pin weights. Then add in people and gear in the trucks. Unless those weights given for the "trucks" were really loaded with people for travel. The left over towing capacity seems reasonable. Though, a class 6 may give the safest weight clearances and room for expansion.

 

I also have Blue Sky for my HDT and 5er. Blue Sky will not just insure the truck without the 5er or the 5er without the truck. They want to insure both units so if something happens, there is no finger pointing between two insurance companies. They will allow you to use your truck outside of pulling the 5er for daily driver or pulling other toys like a boat also. I asked all these questions up front when I went with them (I also had an equipment trailer for my Bobcat - personal use only, no business use - and they were fine with me pulling that as well. It is a discussion you want to have with whatever insurance company you go with to make sure you are covered in all situations you may find yourself in.

[skp51443]

We went with a combo insurance package for a while as it was cheaper and the towing rules were pretty simple. I had to own what was being towed and no commercial / farm use was allowed. I asked about rental trailers and they wouldn't be covered. Talk to your agent but also get a copy of the policy and read it carefully, ask written questions on any areas not clear and file the answers with your policy in case it comes up again.

 

It might be worth a non-combo policy if the restrictions aren't worth the savings.

[Bobi and Dick McKee]

Our insurance through Good Sam operates the same. Only will insure the combined truck and trailer.

[GlennWest]

Being you mentioned cost of hdt here is ours. I have around 32K in mine as is. Has best hitch money can buy. Have 7K in Smartcar. Also there is a 99 Volvo on forum for sale and if I remember correctly $17k. You will pay more for an MDT. Also if you don't haul a motor cycle, Smart, etc. you can have truck shorter and it has no more footprint than an LDT dually. I will be adding boxes under bed later. I will never again choose to haul 20k + 5ther again with a LDT. Like was stated before, we are in control, not the fifth wheel coach.