Saved by our surge suppressor!

[mptjelgin]

1 hour ago, freestoneangler said:

When you say internal vs. external, are you saying you saying you bought a style Progressive Industries surge protector that does not go out at the hook-up box?

Progressive Industries sells a "Hardwired (HW)" version of their EMS that is mounted inside the RV. We've had them in two trailers and prefer them to the outside units as they are out of the weather and out of sight as well. 

[WILDEBILL308]

I think he is talking about the ones that are hard wired in and not removable.

Bill 

[rdickinson]

To the best of my knowledge, the Progressive Protector can be a wired in to the system internallyor plugged in at the power post. 30 or 50 amps obviously externally.  You can plug it into the post or use a dogbone first...no difference in operation.

Personally, I have 2 -50 amp 'portables', 1 as a spare. 

Jan 2016 while at the Tampa RV show, I was backed up to a chain link fence surrounding the truck driving school.  Ground was hard packed sand, poor drainage, so when it started to rain heavily, I hung the cord which lifted the dogbone and surge protector up and around a post to get it up off the ground. This would be less than 50'  from the back of the trailer.   The fence took a lightning strike, huge white flash and an instantaneous bang. 

Anyway, shipped it of to head office, it was repaired no charge. I did have to pay shipping.

I  got my second one off the Forum for sale topic.  Thee has been one there for some time. Folks don't make this much of a priority.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Instead of a surge suppressor, does anyone here have experience with a Hughes Autoformer, which I believe - not positive - also protects against surges as well as brownouts?

 

I was able to pick up a used one off CL for only $150.  Wondering if I need to add a separate surge protector as well, or not?  I think the transformer prevents a sudden, instantaneous power spike from passing through.

[Kirk W]

1 minute ago, Optimistic Paranoid said:

Instead of a surge suppressor, does anyone here have experience with a Hughes Autoformer, which I believe - not positive - also protects against surges as well as brownouts?

 

I was able to pick up a used one off CL for only $150.  Wondering if I need to add a separate surge protector as well, or not?  I think the transformer prevents a sudden, instantaneous power spike from passing through.

I haven't owned one but have known many satisfied users of the Hughes Autoformer. It does have some under/over voltage protection, but probably not quite as good as that from Progressive or TRC-Surge Guard electronic line monitors have. Some people do run both and you might want to look for another bargain unit like you did on this one, but as long as the Autoformer is in good condition, I'd not make it a high priority. 

[docj]

41 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

I haven't owned one but have known many satisfied users of the Hughes Autoformer. It does have some under/over voltage protection, but probably not quite as good as that from Progressive or TRC-Surge Guard electronic line monitors have. Some people do run both and you might want to look for another bargain unit like you did on this one, but as long as the Autoformer is in good condition, I'd not make it a high priority. 

We have a 30A Hughes Autoformer for those situations in which it is necessary.  I don't think Hughes markets it to be in competition with either the Surgeguard or Progresive devices being discussed in this thread.  It does one thing and one thing only--it can boost the voltage by 10 volts if it drops below the threshold.  It can't protect against high voltage, floating neutrals, etc nor does it have actual surge suppression capability.

[freestoneangler]

21 hours ago, WILDEBILL308 said:

I think he is talking about the ones that are hard wired in and not removable.

Bill 

The HW does seem like a good option. Curious to hear how many on the forum have opted to go this route vs. at the power box?  It does eliminate the issue of theft.  At $200+, I can only imagine these are at high risk of growing legs.  I will look for some "how to" videos on installing, but would appreciate hearing from anyone who has done so.

Update: Looks easy enough.  Really like the design where failed components are modular and can be R&R w/o having to take the unit out of the RV.  Also, PI's lifetime warranty speaks volumes to me.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=installing+the+EMS-HW30C&view=detail&mid=4FC4147F71DB82A1F16F4FC4147F71DB82A1F16F&FORM=VIRE

[Jeff & Suzanne]

In 20 years of RVing, we have always used Progressive surge protectors.  Our current one is this one... https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Industries-EMSPT50C-Surge-Protector/dp/B004AQR53K  Notice the metal plate around the cord. . .I padlock that to one of these... https://smile.amazon.com/UShake-Resettable-Combination-Complimentary-Mounting/dp/B0151RQAX2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1496071777&sr=8-3&keywords=bicycle+lock  When the bicycle lock is properly wrapped around the power pedestal it is very difficult for a "thief of opportunity" to grab it and run.  If a dedicated thief is intent on stealing from you, then there isn't much you can do to prevent it with an RV environment.  In all of our RV life (knock on wood), by using the above level of prudence with big ticket stuff, we have never had anything taken from our campsites, and we often leave chairs, grill, levelers, etc. out when we leave the site. 

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, docj said:

 It does one thing and one thing only--it can boost the voltage by 10 volts if it drops below the threshold.  It can't protect against high voltage, floating neutrals, etc nor does it have actual surge suppression capability.

You may be right, but their website states that it also has surge protection, which I think has always been the case.

"4800 Joules of Advanced Surge Protection Built-in " None of the other problems mentioned are covered, and as I understand it (dochj correct me if wrong), should voltage go beyond the range it can adjust for, you then have high or low voltage. 

3 hours ago, freestoneangler said:

At $200+, I can only imagine these are at high risk of growing legs.

I always locked my Surge Guard to the RV cord with the locking device that TRC sells from the day we got ours until I had to replace the power plug when I discovered that only the molded plugs will fit into their locking device. From that day on to this very one, I have not bothered to lock ours as most people don't even know what they are unless they happen to be RV folks. That plug incident was back in 2005 and not only have I not lost one, I have not heard of anyone else who has either. Theft really isn't a significant problem in the RV world and when it happens it is usually things like bikes or lawn furniture. 

[freestoneangler]

12 minutes ago, Kirk Wood said:

Theft really isn't a significant problem in the RV world and when it happens it is usually things like bikes or lawn furniture. 

That is refreshing to hear! (note to self; lock the bike and lawn furniture ). The pendant unit does allow the investment to go with us should we ever get a different RV.  Decisions, decisions... actually part of the fun in all this.

[Kirk W]

The other advantage the portables have is space requirements of the installed versions. But installed ones have some advantages in that they are always in use and could be wired to protect after an ATS if you have an onboard generator. 

[freestoneangler]

Well, after looking at possible mounting places, there are not any altogether convenient. So, I've ordered the Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X-30A.  It has a lock bayonet ring that can provide a little security.  Thanks for the advice!

[Pat & Pete]

In 7 years of full timing , I can't recall ever even thinking about locking ours to anything . 

I hope you find more secure camping spots .

[Darryl&Rita]

I've found more hanging on a pedestal (3), than I've talked to people who have had 1 stolen. 

[WILDEBILL308]

I think if someone wants to steal one all the locks and permanent mounting wouldn't matter. I have never heard of one being stolen. Yes I have the little locking cover but sometimes forget to install it.

Bill

[WeBeFulltimers]

On May 29, 2017 at 10:15 AM, freestoneangler said:

The HW does seem like a good option. Curious to hear how many on the forum have opted to go this route vs. at the power box?  It does eliminate the issue of theft.  At $200+, I can only imagine these are at high risk of growing legs.  I will look for some "how to" videos on installing, but would appreciate hearing from anyone who has done so.

Update: Looks easy enough.  Really like the design where failed components are modular and can be R&R w/o having to take the unit out of the RV.  Also, PI's lifetime warranty speaks volumes to me.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=installing+the+EMS-HW30C&view=detail&mid=4FC4147F71DB82A1F16F4FC4147F71DB82A1F16F&FORM=VIRE

Actually the hard wired EMS can be removed and reinstalled in a different RV if you want.  I have done so when we upgraded fivers.

[freestoneangler]

For those who also travel with a portable generator, I presume you use your surge protector unit between it and the TT just as you do when connected to shore power?

[WILDEBILL308]

7 hours ago, freestoneangler said:

For those who also travel with a portable generator, I presume you use your surge protector unit between it and the TT just as you do when connected to shore power?

I would, it just ads a extra level of protection. More for under voltage than from over voltage.

Bill

[Jimalberta]

On May 28, 2017 at 9:02 AM, mrfrank said:

I happen to believe that Progressive Industries makes a better product and has (had) a better warranty. I had 3 Surge Guards fail over 13 months, switched to PI, and had no more failures. The Surge guards were external and the PI was internal, so that might have played a role. This was about 7 years ago, so Surge Guard could have improved quality in that time.

I agree with you. Also progressive industries has a lifetime warranty with service second to none. Surgeguard has a 1 year warranty.

[Pat & Pete]

We've used an external Progressive Industries unit , everytime we hook up , fulltime , for 7 years . Never a problem .

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, Jimalberta said:

I agree with you. Also progressive industries has a lifetime warranty with service second to none. Surgeguard has a 1 year warranty.

3

I have to wonder what happened to cause anyone to destroy 3 Surge Guard products in a short period since I have used their products since 2003 with not one failure. I got my first one(50a) from a volunteer who traded RVs and it was less than 1 year old, then used it for the next 9 years and sold it used to another RV owner (really cheap). I bought my present one(30a) also slightly used and it has been in service with our present RV since 2012. I found the second one on this forum's Market forum. As one with a background in electrical service and who worked with very similar equipment connected to or built inside of our products, I have examined both products in depth and have concluded that technically there is very little difference between the two major brands and either one will do what it claims to do. Of the two, I do give Progressive a slightly better rating but only because they do supply parts to the end user and their products are designed to be owner repaired while TRC-Surge Guard is not and they don't sell owners parts, plus you need special tools to get inside of one. I have those tools and have on two occasions made repairs to one, replacing a burned power plug on one and a damaged socket on the other. I believe that less skill is required to do the work on the Progressive. Each of us has an opinion, and that happens to be mine. 

EDIT: I should mention that I chose the Surge Guard products because of bargain prices. I would not hesitate to do that again. 

[mrfrank]

Kirk, I believe that the issue with the external surge guards was a lack of water tightness. The year that this happened to me was a very wet year, and we were in a number of campgrounds where the pedestal plug was so low that I couldn't keep the Surge Guard off of the ground. This was especially a problem in state parks with only 30 amp service when plugged into a dogbone. (50 amp to 30 amp). Warranty support played a big role in my decision to switch.

[rdickinson]

Sure you can, plug a dogbone into the power pedestal, plug the power analyzer into the dogbone, put a plastic bag over the analyzer, plug your shore power thru the plastic and hang the works over top of the power pole.... or drape it over your wash bucket.

I don't even bother with the bag, just face the device down over anything to get it off the ground..

[Pappy Yokum]

On 5/31/2016 at 1:32 PM, D&J said:

 

I've worked on buildings and equipment that took direct or close hits and there is no way to protect from it because there's just to much power involved. It would just fry your sure protector then jump past it and continue on its way.

 

Denny

 

Correct observation/s of/for  protection from "direct" or very close lightning strikes.

Simplest and most effective protection if lightning is in your area is to unplug (disconnect) your power cord from the campground pedestal.

For more "routine"  electrical issues,  Progressive Industries EMS (portable or hard wired) is very hard to beat....as in the following example

The Electrician said "Oops!"

KOA RV services published good advice on RVs and *lightning* several years ago...

http://rvservices.koa.com/rvinformation/rvmaintenance/rv-breaker-tips.asp

Although the surge protection sources & info is now somewhat outdated, the technical observations (and protection for *lightning*) were directed to a question many years ago, by John DeArmond. -

http://yarchive.net/electr/lightning_protect.html

if you prefer *not* to read his response in its entirety, to get to the bottom line of his article, scroll down several paragraphs to...."All that said, the easiest way to protect an RV is to simply unplug it when a storm approaches".

 

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