Jump to content

Best 5th wheel for cold winters?


tony2co

Recommended Posts

My family and I are looking at buying a 5th wheel. There is a lot to wade through in researching, etc. Most of my digging around yields info that is 5 plus years old.

 

What is the best 5th wheel out there for surviving a cold winter? I know adding skirting, etc will help. But, since we are shopping around, want to start with a good unit. It is a given that the artic/4 season etc packages are in place. Colorado is where we will us it most.

 

Thanks

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that's hard to answer without some better idea of your budget and size requirements. Best is always a bit subjective at least. Off the top of my head, I'd recommend you start by looking at Arctic Fox and New Horizons. They have a good reputation for quality and infrastructure. If your primary need is cold protection, you will want to look at the build quality and infrastructure choices of a variety of different manufacturers to be able to judge for yourself why a particular trailer will be better in extreme temperatures than another.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think any of them are built with real cold weather in mind. Can you do it? Of course but heating costs might be prohibitive. There are several tricks you can try to survive a really cold winter and a search on this and other RV forums would be in order. IMO RVs come with wheels for a reason, the biggest one is following temperate climates, they really aren't intended for holing up in winter. If you must, simply look for the ones with the most insulation and then figure out how to add more, a lot more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dealing with cold weather in a decent 5th wheel is not has hard as one might think. A heavier, better-insulated unit such as the DRV Mobile suites and New Horizons (on the really big/heavy side) or an Arctic Fox makes things easier. Some must-haves include an enclosed and actively heated (not heat strips on the tanks) underbelly. Nice-to-haves include double pane windows for both insulation and condensation control. We have survived temps in the lower teens for stretches of a couple of weeks in a mid-level fifth wheel. We learned to do things like fill up the fresh water tank, drain the gray and black tanks, and disconnect everything at night (did this only every two or three days without having to resort to "Navy showers"). We were in places with 50 amp electric service, so supplemented our main heater with the electric fireplace in the living room and a small ceramic heater in the bedroom. We were careful to make sure that the main heater still cycled occasionally to keep the basement utility area above freezing. We have some of those little square covered foam pillows to put up in the roof vents when not in use, too. It's amazing how much heat leaves via those thin plastic vent hatches. During the longest stretch with temps in the teens and 20s, we averaged about $9 - $14 a week for propane. (That was before we got to an SKP park out in California where propane was a little over $1 a gallon this month!!!)

 

Rob

2012 F350 CC LB DRW 6.7
2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes, solar, DP windows
Full-time since 8/2015

 

StatesVisited20210913_small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do a search for 5th wheel ice houses. Just cover up the holes in the floor!

2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch
2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler
Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you!

 

Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/

for much more info on HDT's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

During the winter virtually anywhere in Colorado below 0 temperatures should be expected for at least a period of time. None of the RV's are comfortable at these temperatures IMO. Skirting and other additions help but it simply doesn't have the insulation of a home. I have watched people try to winter in Grand Junction, CO, which is warmer than many locations and they said never again. The cost to heat the RV for the winter was high also. If you are still interested in RV's during the winter I would think double pane windows and a better insulated unit with an enclosed underbelly would be be preferred. Some of the brands already mentioned along with Teton's would fit. Some find it more comfortable and nearly as cheap to rent a place to stay during the coldest months.

Randy

2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do a search for 5th wheel ice houses. Just cover up the holes in the floor!

We looked at the Ice House RVs and they are really not build any differently than a standard RV. Just holes in the floor and axles set to retract so you set the frame on the ice. I would have thought that they would be better insulated, but they are not.

 

Ken

Amateur radio operator, 2023 Cougar 22MLS, 2022 F150 Lariat 4x4 Off Road, Sport trim <br />Travel with 1 miniature schnauzer, 1 standard schnauzer and one African Gray parrot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually our Teton does well. No it is not a house but does well. Teton was located in Casper Wyoming. May have a bearing on build. They did use the Dow Blue Foam insulation. It is best in our industry. I had a DRV. We were not impressed with their 3.250 walls with batten insulation. They are nice, well built units. Our Teton is way easier to heat and cool.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New or used? Approximate top budget? I ask for the top money possible because for the options you will want, it costs, and in some cases are not available. There are fewer custom manufacturers than ever before, but have you considered the Super C and a Toad?

 

I just got off the phone with Doug, the owner of Powerhouse Coach, because I always liked their prices and the fact that they, for a price, will build anything you want. However, their stock, not optional, equipment is pretty impressive like all double pane windows, and the insulation in the walls and ceilings are beyond what I have seen in most Fivers. I have not owned one yet, but one of theirs or on like them, are on my short list for fulltime rig.

 

Go here for an idea of their rigs http://www.powerhousecoach.com/index.html

 

Why? Because I just called them and found they have the same 2" vacuum bonded sidewall as any other manufacturer. I asked him if there were any reason they could not make the sidewalls 4" vacuum bonded. He said if one paid for the extra materials and time they could do it.

 

So long as you have 2" thick walls, whether wood or aluminum framed, regardless of the insulation material, you are pretty much going to have issues in sub zero weather in any 2" walled, non polar prepped RV of any type. The double paned thermal windows on the calculator can't do magic and cause a major difference in heating costs in a 2" sidewall RV. But they DO eliminate the condensation rolling down walls and on the inside of the windows obscuring visibility. As well they really make a heck of a difference in noise perceived inside. My old house here had single paned windows with metal frames and we now have dual paned windows with less heat lost or gained through the vinyl/wood frame than metal frames cause.

 

You have to disregard the folks with inferior roof and floor insulation, as you can use auxiliary electric heaters to help (I don't do unvented gas heaters in house or RV) and do OK in cold weather and some with just their outside vented safe furnaces.

 

So ask each manufacturer the thickness of their side walls. My opinion is that with 4" sidewalls in addition to the well insulated floors and ceilings of some brands, you begin to have the ability to make it in zero degree weather. My first rig after installing inside storm windows of glass by Hehr, still went through two thirty pound propane cylinders a week in sub 20 degree weather. In zero it would be three I guess. lowest we did in that rig was 17 one night and with two ceramic electric heaters going we stayed livable.

 

It isn't just cold. Summers in Arizona or here in Louisiana has hit 110 a couple of years ago and has hit at least 105 every summer lately. We were happy when our rig could stay below 80 then. Our little 28.5 foot standard insulation weekender we have now went through last August and September here before we could move into the house and it could not, with one A/C unit, keep the inside temps below 80 without closing off both bedrooms and concentrating it in the LR/kitchen areas. IT has a 3/4" marine plywood roof with fiberglass under it in the 4" ceiling truss area and the standard 2" sidewalls. I reroofed with TPO so confirmed the roof materials.

 

So look on that website and call up several manufacturers of each type of RV you are considering and see if they can give you 4" walls. Or decide if it's worth it to you. You can get the best regular RV setup but if you are going to be in cold weather a lot, dual panes area must for all windows IMO, as well as very well insulated under floor tank areas that are heated, as well as the roof.

 

You can settle for OK or if the price is not a deterrent, build it as well insulated as you'd like.

 

Just remember that regardless of smoke and mirrors used by some, 2" of sidewall is two inches of sidewall.

 

Hope that helps.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Check out difference in open cell foam and closed cell foam (like Dow Blue). Major difference. All 2" walls are not equal. One can view Dow Blue at lowes or Home Depot. It is very dense. On hung batten insulation. It will settle. Mine did. It is standard in houses. They don't bump up and down these roads like our campers.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glenn,

Then order your favorite insulation in a 4" wall, because all 4" walls are not the same as any 2" wall. Few manufacturers will custom make that. Do any of the remaining fiver manufacturers still make custom rigs? I am asking as I don't think so, but may be wrong. But the question is what fiver is best for cold (and heat by definition) and while there are many well insulated ceilings and floors on different brands and models. I think all will agree that a 4" wall system is only a start. Then it has to be the best top and bottom insulation too.

 

New Horizons came to mind and I thought they went out of biz and was glad to find the fine folks there are still up and running. Go here: http://www.horizonsrv.com/read-more-about--fiberglass-walls

http://www.horizonsrv.com/check-out-full--fiberglass-roof

 

BTW Tony, if you go to my website at the bottom of my sig block you will see that both of my fulltime rigs, and now my weekender 28.5 rig, are all fivers. So I am not a motorhome owner or proponent. I simply did some searches and calls and found my old standby Arctic Fox no longer built custom rigs as they did on pre ordered rigs in advance by three months in the 90s.

 

I lived in Colorado Springs for three years 1978-81 teaching at the AF Academy so I know how low it can go there. Then be sunny and 70 degrees the next day or three. My youngest son is on the way home from a visit here for the weekend to Denver where he lives.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New Horizons, Spacecraft and I believe Forks still make custom trailers.

 

Spacecraft shows their standard fifth wheel wall construction is R10 but does not indicate the total wall thickness. Their ceiling is R21 and floor is R25. This info is taken from their data sheets as we are looking at having them price us a 5th wheel.

Dave

2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch
2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler
Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you!

 

Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/

for much more info on HDT's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glenn,

Then order your favorite insulation in a 4" wall, because all 4" walls are not the same as any 2" wall. Few manufacturers will custom make that. Do any of the remaining fiver manufacturers still make custom rigs? I am asking as I don't think so, but may be wrong. But the question is what fiver is best for cold (and heat by definition) and while there are many well insulated ceilings and floors on different brands and models. I think all will agree that a 4" wall system is only a start. Then it has to be the best top and bottom insulation too.

 

New Horizons came to mind and I thought they went out of biz and was glad to find the fine folks there are still up and running. Go here: http://www.horizonsrv.com/read-more-about--fiberglass-walls

http://www.horizonsrv.com/check-out-full--fiberglass-roof

 

BTW Tony, if you go to my website at the bottom of my sig block you will see that both of my fulltime rigs, and now my weekender 28.5 rig, are all fivers. So I am not a motorhome owner or proponent. I simply did some searches and calls and found my old standby Arctic Fox no longer built custom rigs as they did on pre ordered rigs in advance by three months in the 90s.

 

I lived in Colorado Springs for three years 1978-81 teaching at the AF Academy so I know how low it can go there. Then be sunny and 70 degrees the next day or three. My youngest son is on the way home from a visit here for the weekend to Denver where he lives.

sounds as though I struck a nerve. Sorry. I will try to not comment anymore on this

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Dave,

Good to hear Spacecraft is still in biz. Forks looks expensive but very nice too. For intentionally staying in Colorado in winter full-timing it would definitely take a better rig.

 

No Glenn. It wasn't my nerve struck.

 

We'd settled for heavy Propane use in both our fivers, in winter when it dropped below freezing, and into the teens. All I'm saying is that if you think 2" of your favorite insulation can be better than 2" of another, then four inches of it would be twice as effective.

 

It's foremost in my mind because way back in 1999 when we were fulltime, we had inside factory storm windows made by Jehr who also made our windows in that fiver. the difference was incredible.

 

I'd never asked for thicker walls before. We just had a custom built manufactured home done to replace the 16X80 trailer that came with the property. i ordered it with 2x6 framing all around including walls and blown in R-38? in the gabled attic. As well we had 1/2" premium sheetrock mud and taped which adds to the insulation. We have twice the square footage and in over 105° last August, and this winter's cold, our heating and cooling have been half what we paid before. The old trailer and this one had/have a natural gas furnace, stove, and water heater from the village utilities.

 

So we are in the first seasons reaping the ROI on the extra expense of the dual pane windows, thicker walls, polar package, and sheetrock. In fact we are amazed at how much difference going from 3-4" to 6" walls made!

 

So it occurred to me to ask the manufacturers. I was surprised Powercoach could. Going from 2" to 4" in an RV cabin should do even more. inside loss of space will be 2"on all walls too, adding four inches to the inside length and width.

 

So again, another option to stay in Colorado that might help immensely for a price.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We spent a late January- March 12 in Golden CO. We were in the DRV. We were fine. We did not have dual pane windows and it was cool sitting in slideout next to a window. But all in all it was not uncomfortable. The Teton is better insulated. I personally would not substitute thicker walls. You will loose interior space. I do believe you are putting too much into wall insulation. Your windows and slide out seals are your largest heat lost. No matter how thick walls are if you have drafts it will be uncomfortable. Windows are a huge lost. Even with dual pane windows we use reflective bubble sheets on windows and it makes a huge difference.

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...

The newest ones are 10-12 years old now, but Newmar offered a "winter package" on Mountain Aire fifth wheels. Ours has two furnaces (1 AC), double pane windows, extra insulation and heat ducts in the belly.

 

A few years ago we survived one night at 18 below in Denver, along with a week of temps below zero every night and highs around 10. We put aluminized insulation sheets inside all the windows, disconnected water and sewer lines, and ran both furnaces at 65 degrees around the clock to keep the belly warm. Too hot for us during the night, but the pipes were more important. Filled a 40 lb propane tank every other day! Pricy, but we survived with no issues.

Dennis & Nancy
Tucson, AZ in winter, on the road in summer.

1999 Volvo 610 "Bud" 425 HP Volvo, Super 10 spd.
2005 Mountain Aire 35 BLKS
2013 smart fortwo CityFlame riding on Bud
(Replaced '05 smart first loaded in '06

and '11 smart that gave it's life to save me!)
Our Travel Blog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Dave,

Good to hear Spacecraft is still in biz. Forks looks expensive but very nice too. For intentionally staying in Colorado in winter full-timing it would definitely take a better rig.

Better than what? Better than Forks, New Horizons and Spacecraft?

 

I'm with Glenn. The walls are the least of your heating and cooling issues. The slides and the windows are.

All the insulation in the world and 4 inch thick walls are a waste of resources (ie: dollars) if you can't keep the heat in at the slides and windows. 4 inch thick walls may be nice but are way overkill and a waste of money in an RV. The slides can not support that sort of construction so you will be building 4 inch walls in the trailer and cutting holes in them for the slides.

 

Derek, the OP was asking about 5th wheels and you went straight to Powerhouse coaches? I am not picking on your but you weren't even aware that the 3 largest custom fifth wheel builders were still in business. You may be a bit behind the curve on this one.

MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.
~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~

2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission
singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin
2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 

2014 smart Fortwo

 

 
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Big fiver,

I agreed. I made the point that when we put in Hehr glass storm windows in fiver. our fiver it made all the difference in the world. I had thought Stan had a custom Spacecraft and saying they went out of biz. But you are right, it is hard to keep track of the takeovers and acquisitions in the last ten years.

 

I was trying to get across that having that second pane of glass made all the difference. And not to focus on insulation claims of one being better with the same thickness walls. The roofs can be played with a bit more but, the only way to go thicker walls are the powerhouse coaches and that segment. But like you said, I'm a bit behind. Does New Horizons, Forks, and Spacecraft offer four or six inch walls. If so I stand corrected. Thanks.

I think we both were answering his question about what would make cold weather more tolerable in a fiver. Given that they all have the same thickness in walls and pretty much roof insulation I agree that the walls are the least worry because in mods cases, if not all, they can't be feasibly made thicker.

 

So we are left with dual pane glass, and using the furnace for insulated tanks and basement heating.

 

Sorry though, I am getting behind on who is still there. Things like HitchHiker folding, the un-folding, then folding production again but keeping open for repairs an custom changes. Glad you guys are around when I'm off base to pick up the slack.

 

I have been a bit quick on the trigger with not enough double checking since having cervical and lumbar surgery and making the mistake of having my cataract and Re-story lenses put in for no glasses. That backfired and I'm having some temporary difficulty reading. Last week they used Laser surgery to burn/breakup the floaters they knocked loose during cataract surgery and got me to at least be able to drive safely. on Monday they go in again with the Laser for a hopefully final clear up of the floaters, and that seems to be working. Then he will have to replace one lens, making the supposed simple two surgeries into five counting the burning. No excuse but you're right that until I'm able to keep up, I need to back off a bit. But for the third month post op spinal, and two months post op and ongoing eye surgeries, which don't hurt but sure messed me up until they get the rest redone. At least the doc took full responsibility and told me they'd make it right and at no additional cost.

 

TMI but my way of apologizing to you all for my terrible posts lately. (So what's different some would say)

 

I figure by mid summer I'll be back in the swing. Right now I have to hire out for a guy to come use my equipment to cut the glass. My physical terrorists say I'm young enough to buil my core back.

 

So thanks guys for keeping me straight.

 

 

Safe travels folks.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In addition to the Fiver's already mentioned. NuWa Hitch Hiker owners have enjoyed Four Season usage. I believe that Western RV Alpenlite's also had some Four Season 5th wheels too. Would not hurt to check these out too. And of course others besides the ones listed so far.

 

And the term 'Four Season' is a marketing term, that many manufactures interpret differently. So due diligence is required.

 

Much depends upon what the OP is looking for as far as budget, new vs used, size, etc.

 

Best of luck to you,

Smitty

Be safe, have fun,

Smitty

04 CC Allure "RooII" - Our "E" ride for life!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although our DRV38RSSA Elite Suites has had many quality control issues, comfort has not been among them. We have a cheap heat system so heat mostly with electricity - turn down to 65 at night; generally 70 during day. We have 3 cats so generally keep around 68 even when not here. Have spent winter in Anacortes, WA and have gone through an unusually cold winter - many days in low 20s and 30s with up to 10 degree drop at night. No issues. We do not use our fireplace for heat because supposedly it draws heat from basement when tank heaters are on. We do not use space heaters. We DO have an electric mattress pad for our king sized bed (get them at Walmart - they are awesome!). Our electric bill in the coldest months was around $220. We have only changed our 40 lb propane tank twice since November; but I have not been cooking as much due to our on-going medical appointment schedules and frequent family meals with kids and grandkids.

2010 Volvo VNL 670 D13 500 HP Ishift - "THOR"

2016 DRV Elite Suites 38RSSA - "Freya"

2012 Smart For Two - "Loki"

 

Ron & Shelley Johnston, pilots

Toy, Nika, and Piranha, feline co-pilots and Demi-gods (at least if you ask them).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are planning to park and prepare before the cold hits and not leave until the cold weather is gone, you can live in almost anything, with the proper preparations. You will have "trade offs" for sure. Most campgrounds close in the winter. A mobile home park may allow an RV and their water connections are mostly prepared for the cold weather. You just have to figure out how to get it to your RV which is usually almost halfway up a side wall. The rest is covering the inside windows with the shrink plastic, finding a way to skirt around the entire bottom of the trailer and getting a large enough LP tank to last more than a couple days.

 

I sent a PM to the OP.

 

Rod

White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors,  JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift.

1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022

2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top.

2007 Honda GL 1800

2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler

The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...