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Chad i would like to ask a question. If i register a HDT in CA as commercial and will be only using it for a rv how does CARB find you? What I mean is I want to get a truck now register it and start the conversion over the next few years and maybe take a few trips as just a camper in that time. But it would be awhile before I would have a 5th wheel. How does Carb find you and can I register any year truck.I've heard no truck with a engine older than 2010 and you have to add a catalysts and what does insurance run. Are the insurance companies more understand of what I'm trying to do? Any incite would be much appreciated. Thanks Iddy

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34 minutes ago, iddy said:

Chad i would like to ask a question. If i register a HDT in CA as commercial and will be only using it for a rv how does CARB find you? What I mean is I want to get a truck now register it and start the conversion over the next few years and maybe take a few trips as just a camper in that time. But it would be awhile before I would have a 5th wheel. How does Carb find you and can I register any year truck.I've heard no truck with a engine older than 2010 and you have to add a catalysts and what does insurance run. Are the insurance companies more understand of what I'm trying to do? Any incite would be much appreciated. Thanks Iddy

It has been a while since I spoke directly with CARB, but when I did talk to them they said that a recreational vehicle (either RV or a truck being used to haul a recreational 5th wheel) would be exempt.  I did not specifically ask them about running bobtail when you do not yet own a 5th wheel and using the truck as a "camper", so I can't give a for sure answer on that issue.  The people at CARB were very pleasant and helpful when I did call and speak with them.  I would recommend you give them a call regarding that issue.  I know there are exemptions for small fleets even in the commercial market, but I don't remember what those exemptions are.  Again CARB would best be able to answer that question.  

As far as insurance, I went through National General to register my HDT and 5th wheel.  National General never asked how my truck was registered.  They did not care.  They only cared about how it would be used.  I was very up front with them about my usage and they had no problem writing a policy for me in CA.  Blue Sky was the same way before they got out of the RV market.  Now both National General and Blue Sky before them wanted the truck and the 5th wheel bundled together so not owning a 5th wheel may give you some hassle.  How long do you plan to have the HDT without a 5th wheel? I was 5th wheel less for a while when I sold my old one and ordered my new one.  The insurance company didn't mind this, but I already had the policy with both on it and just dropped the 5th wheel when it sold.  Once I picked up the new 5th wheel  (about 3 or 4 months later) I added it back to the policy.  Again this would probably take a call to a broker who understands the HDT RV market to get a specific answer.  If you have the truck and are actively looking to buy a 5th wheel, that may be fine.  If you don't plan to buy a 5th wheel for a couple of years, who knows?

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Thanks Chad that's helpful. Yeah there will probably years between the acquiring of the truck the conversion and then the purchase of the 5th wheel. . Are you going to the Nation rally? if so I would like to buy you a coffee and chew the fat about HDT's Thanks again. Iddy

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1 hour ago, iddy said:

Thanks Chad that's helpful. Yeah there will probably years between the acquiring of the truck the conversion and then the purchase of the 5th wheel. . Are you going to the Nation rally? if so I would like to buy you a coffee and chew the fat about HDT's Thanks again. Iddy

Any time.  I won't be at the national rally.  Getting back to Kansas (or Tennessee for the ECR) is a little rough coming from CA and still working full time.  I will eventually get to both of them, but it might not happen until I retire.  Maybe you can make the WCR next year.  Its a great group and not nearly as far for those of us on the west coast.

If you are ever up in Northern CA, I'm happy to meet up.  I work in Sonoma County and live in Lake County (northern Bay Area).

2000 Kenworth T2000 w/ Cummins N14 and autoshift
2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard
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I have a buddy that bought a Freightliner HDT, that he singled and put a hitch on to tow his ALFA 40' 5er.  He regustered it in CA by doing the following.  He found the requirements, had me(I'm a fabricator) build some brackets for holding tanks, put the microwave, portapotty, sink, etc. into the sleeper.  Contacted a DMV contractor to verify that it was indeed meeting the requirements and then registered it in CA as a RV.  I think his registration was less than $200 per year.  He figured out how to meet the intent of the law.  So I know it can be done.

Marcel

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1 minute ago, rpsinc said:

I have a buddy that bought a Freightliner HDT, that he singled and put a hitch on to tow his ALFA 40' 5er.  He regustered it in CA by doing the following.  He found the requirements, had me(I'm a fabricator) build some brackets for holding tanks, put the microwave, portapotty, sink, etc. into the sleeper.  Contacted a DMV contractor to verify that it was indeed meeting the requirements and then registered it in CA as a RV.  I think his registration was less than $200 per year.  He figured out how to meet the intent of the law.  So I know it can be done.

I think the more important question is "When" was this done. It used to be possible prior to about 2 years ago, but reportedly not now. Many of us have prior tractors titled as motorhomes in CA, but all of the known owners here did it prior to two years ago.

If you can get new information about getting it done recently, please share!

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22 hours ago, CrazyCooter said:

I think the more important question is "When" was this done. It used to be possible prior to about 2 years ago, but reportedly not now. Many of us have prior tractors titled as motorhomes in CA, but all of the known owners here did it prior to two years ago.

If you can get new information about getting it done recently, please share!

Sounds like the correct timing.  It was likely over 2 years ago.  Seems like it is a change implemented similarly to CARB working to eliminating non-DEF diesels over time.  My 2007 Duramax looks like it wont be allowed to be registered after 2024.  I read somewhere that this law was put into place as a result of some research done by a State employee that wasnt qualified to do this work and with results that were in error.  But yet, a law was passed that will affect many vehicle owners and cost them lots of $$.  I dont understand that BIG machine and its working.  And unlike most things, I dont want to know how it works.  I am working on leaving the BIG machine behind me.  Still a few years to go, but that is the path.

Marcel

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1 minute ago, BlueLghtning said:

Wow, that is crazy! 

No, it's California.  Makes perfect sense there.

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While living in CA, south of Fresno, mine was registered commercial but on nonop status. When I converted it to an RV hauler, I registered it in MT under an LLC. Unless I was camping, it was kept in storage. Both my fiver and my car have CA plates. Nobody ever said a word about my MT plates on the truck. Insurance is still through the folks in OR with a CA address.
Incidentally, if your truck is over 11 years old you can get permanent tags in MT.

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22 minutes ago, LostSoul said:

While living in CA, south of Fresno, mine was registered commercial but on nonop status. When I converted it to an RV hauler, I registered it in MT under an LLC. Unless I was camping, it was kept in storage. Both my fiver and my car have CA plates. Nobody ever said a word about my MT plates on the truck. Insurance is still through the folks in OR with a CA address.
Incidentally, if your truck is over 11 years old you can get permanent tags in MT.

Good to know.  We did something similar.  Bought a MDT and 5er and registered in SD.  Seeing what the path is for diesels in CA, glad my '01 IH is not registered in CA.  Because they are driven often and esp NOT locally, it doesnt bring attention.  Mostly we drive them on trips out of state.  Insured through our long term provider, a major insurance carrier.  

Marcel

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If you live in CA and your vehicle is garaged in CA, you must register it in CA.  You cannot register it in any other state - it is illegal.  You may get away with it for a while, but it will eventually come around and bite you.  It may be as simple as a registration ticket, but it could be a lot worse - think fraud.  CA does not like it when they think you owe them money and you have not paid - think registration/license fees and sales tax (on new purchases).

2000 Kenworth T2000 w/ Cummins N14 and autoshift
2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard
2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan
2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage)
2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage)
My First Solar Install Thread
My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build
My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet!

chadheiser.com      West Coast HDT Rally Website

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4 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

If you live in CA and your vehicle is garaged in CA, you must register it in CA.  You cannot register it in any other state - it is illegal.  You may get away with it for a while, but it will eventually come around and bite you.  It may be as simple as a registration ticket, but it could be a lot worse - think fraud.  CA does not like it when they think you owe them money and you have not paid - think registration/license fees and sales tax (on new purchases).

I think this is true of most states.  And it can cause one to be an "unintentional outlaw".  For instance, I live in Indiana.  My farm base is in Ohio, just a few miles away.  My work truck is licensed in Ohio, because that is where it spends most of it's time, and miles.  But Indiana law says it must be licensed in Indiana if it spends 60 consecutive nights at my house. I don't keep track of that.

If they ever want to come after me, it will cost the state lost revenue, when I move 7 motorcycles and 5 trailers to Ohio, where they're parked now.

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18 hours ago, LostSoul said:

While living in CA, south of Fresno, mine was registered commercial but on nonop status. When I converted it to an RV hauler, I registered it in MT under an LLC. Unless I was camping, it was kept in storage. Both my fiver and my car have CA plates. Nobody ever said a word about my MT plates on the truck. Insurance is still through the folks in OR with a CA address.
Incidentally, if your truck is over 11 years old you can get permanent tags in MT.

Flying 'under the radar' (getting away with it) doesn't make it legal. Neither does "in storage".

If you have MT plates (in CA),  you need a MT Driver's License!

Without the appropriate (MT DL), sooner or later, when you're traveling on a CA road - "somebody" WILL say the word (most likely in writing) - and issue you a "greetings" - which will become *very* expensive! (Repeat - "very" - several times!)

A MT LLC (in CA) makes you -or the LLC- commercial.  Whole new can of worms (and you still need a MT DL).. Save the atty $$ for an LLC - and register it in MT w/o an LLC. 

If you can't do that -for whatever reason- (ex: still employed in CA), save yourself a lot of grief -  better start working on a "Plan B".

Like it or not - - It is what it is.

.

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I was on the cusp of retirement and leaving CA behind so it was only there for a few months. I'm not that concerned about being 100% legal. I'm pretty sure that most could be written a ticket for something given enough research. After all, my Smart is too long for the way it is loaded too.

Mark & Jackie

Visalia, CA

USAF Ret

2011 Smart convertible

2014 Trilogy 3650 RE

2004 Volvo VNL780

Cummins ISX 530

13 speed

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1 hour ago, LostSoul said:

I was on the cusp of retirement and leaving CA behind so it was only there for a few months. I'm not that concerned about being 100% legal. I'm pretty sure that most could be written a ticket for something given enough research. After all, my Smart is too long for the way it is loaded too.

Sole.....

As I recall Chad is somewhat connected to Law Enforcement in Keaifornia so you might listen up to what he has to say....

I can tell you First-hand that when Kalifornia decides to try "enforcement" your lawyers will extract big $$$ from you just to keep you off Alkatraz ($p)...

In the 80'$ at Oakland in a new airplane for ten minutes on my way home to Oregon the sales tax gang billed me $47,xxx and all it took to stay out of jail was a few thousand dollars to stay out of sharing a cell with Charles Manson....

If you mess with Kalifornia you are dumber than I am......now that would be world class dumb.....

Listen to Chad......he is not dumb....

Drive on .....(mess with Kalifornia=$$$$)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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10 minutes ago, Dollytrolley said:

Sole.....

As I recall Chad is somewhat connected to Law Enforcement in Keaifornia so you might listen up to what he has to say....

I can tell you First-hand that when Kalifornia decides to try "enforcement" your lawyers will extract big $$$ from you just to keep you off Alkatraz ($p)...

In the 80'$ at Oakland in a new airplane for ten minutes on my way home to Oregon the sales tax gang billed me $47,xxx and all it took to stay out of jail was a few thousand dollars to stay out of sharing a cell with Charles Manson....

If you mess with Kalifornia you are dumber than I am......now that would be world class dumb.....

Listen to Chad......he is not dumb....

Drive on .....(mess with Kalifornia=$$$$)

Dolly,

 

You have mentioned this before, could you elaborate.      IIRC you were bring  a Mooney back?    Now Mooneys are more expensive but at that time a 231 or 252 was nowhere near the value to reflect a 47K tax bill?

 

Steve 

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Steve

A Mooney triggered the "event"....they also claimed a 700 Aerostar and a C421 AND "fees"....  

I had a partner that had extensive holdings in SF that did not help matters...

In the end the lawyers made some money and I learned to stay out of Kalifornia with new aircraft....

Steve as I recall you have been in California for sometime and you might recall that a lot of folks would drive /fly/$ail to Oregon to "buy" big-time items so I had a target printed on my back being from Oregon....

These days for the most part Oregon is not a good place to try to game the Cal-sales-tax....so just pay the tax and then you do not incurred the "FEES".....

My point is....don't mess with Kalifornia...it just does not work to try to game them

Drive on.....(you play....you might pay)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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Mike,

 

I am 5th generation Californian, I still own a house there but, spend more time away.     I am slowly coming to the realization that my home and my interest are diverging.     I know several folks that had Oregon plates and registration for toys.   There is the same thing in Kansas with TX and, OK plates.  

 

I may have mentioned this before but, in the 80's we bought two CNC machines from an Importer in Chicago for our shop in L.A.    The Importer had a booth at IMTS in Anaheim for several years.    Nearly 8 years after we bought the second machine we got a call from the importer, the Franchise Tax Board was demanding sales tax.   We never did pay because we has proof of delivery from out of state.    The dealer on the other hand paid on I think on 5 or six machines sold in California.     The state has been very proactive about tax collection since I can remember.   

 

That may have been unique then, it is just "good business" today.    

 

Steve 

2005 Peterbilt 387-112 Baby Cat 9 speed U-shift

1996/2016 remod Teton Royal Atlanta

1996 Kentucky 48 single drop stacker garage project

 catdiesellogo.jpg.e96e571c41096ef39b447f78b9c2027c.jpg Pulls like a train, sounds like a plane....faster than a Cheetah sniffin cocaine.   

 

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On 7/18/2017 at 0:51 PM, Steve from SoCal said:

Mike,

 

I am 5th generation Californian, I still own a house there but, spend more time away.     I am slowly coming to the realization that my home and my interest are diverging.     I know several folks that had Oregon plates and registration for toys.   There is the same thing in Kansas with TX and, OK plates.  

 

I may have mentioned this before but, in the 80's we bought two CNC machines from an Importer in Chicago for our shop in L.A.    The Importer had a booth at IMTS in Anaheim for several years.    Nearly 8 years after we bought the second machine we got a call from the importer, the Franchise Tax Board was demanding sales tax.   We never did pay because we has proof of delivery from out of state.    The dealer on the other hand paid on I think on 5 or six machines sold in California.     The state has been very proactive about tax collection since I can remember.   

 

That may have been unique then, it is just "good business" today.    

 

Steve 

Steve,

Indeed, "proactive" is a very nice word to use to flavor the efforts that the sales tax geeks use at times......

One morning I had a certification flight test spinning a P-210 and the FAA Seattle Mod branch engineers were to observe from a Barron orditing above when just as I was taking off a couple of CA Tax enforcement geeks showed up at the hanger.....I had a lady that was a FAA DMIR (Designated Manufacturing Inspection Representative) and she took her job seriously and she told the tax geeks to leave because the FAA MIDO inspectors were due any moment for a Quasor Audit and she had no time for whiny sales tax geeks and the sales tax geeks refused to leave......she called her hubby when was a Capt in the sheriff's office and he and a deputy kicked the geeks out of the hanger......later after the FAA herds had left she told me about kicking the tax geeks out.....I almost felt sorry for the geeks....sorta.....

These days I have no beef with CA sales tax geeks and I would say that trying to game them might be a tough game with all of the digital records that exist almost everywhere......

 

Drive on......(don't become overtaxed...)

97 Freightshaker Century Cummins M11-370 / 1350 /10 spd / 3:08 /tandem/ 20ft Garage/ 30 ft Curtis Dune toybox with a removable horse-haul-module to transport Dolly-The-Painthorse to horse camps and trail heads all over the Western U S

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No more HDTs as motorhomes in CA for now

As for CARB I did cal them, and like Chad said they are very nice and helpful. 

When I called with the same question the person on the phone was new and couldn't answer, so they had a supervisor call me that same day. 

I was told and they emailed me a letter stating that. 

If you use the truck strictly for RV purposes, that the is expected from needing any DPF. 

But if caught using for profit that the fine was very steep

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