Pjoe Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Tried to open a new account with Fidelity today and I'm running into their bureaucracy around the Patriot act. I am currently using a mail service in FL and they don't like that address. I have my retirement accounts there that have been fine for the past several months but this new account threw up red flags. I Tried to use my nephew's address and they now want a utility bill in my name. Looks like I'm stuck looking for an investment house that does not have the same requirements. I'm assuming the Rainbow Drive address in Texas would have a similar issue? What are some alternatives? Please help! Bill 2010 Tiffin Allegro Bus 2012 Honda CRV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mptjelgin Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Vanguard accepted my Rainbow Drive address, no questions asked. Mark & Teri 2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350 Mark & Teri's Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nana25k Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Lots of info out there on this issue. I am sure someone Weill chime in soon. Seems to me there is an out to this but you must persist in masking them look up the extra info. Most of these people just don't want to work around the issue but rather just read from the script Ron & LindaClass of 20072000 Monaco Diplomat 2005 Honda Element"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are" Theodore Roosevelt"We can't control the wind, but we can adjust our sail""When man gave up his freedom to roam the earth, he gave up his soul for a conditioned ego that is bound by time and the fear of losing its attachments." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 PM'd OP one real world solution that worked for others including myself. Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mptjelgin Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 As far as I can tell, I have a "residential street address". It seems to be up to the institution to interpret what that means. Mark & Teri 2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350 Mark & Teri's Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 PM'd OP one real world solution that worked for others including myself. Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Deleted by poster. Deleted my posts - PM'd the OP. No arguments and conflicts that way. Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Greg Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 We also use Fidelity and a mail forwarder in Madison, SD. Earlier this year we "moved" from a forwarder in Sioux Falls, SD and using their website changed our Fidelity address and called the box number an apartment number. This works for me. Greg Greg & Judy Bahnmiller Class of 2007 2014 F350 2007 HitchHiker Champagne Both sold 2/19, settled in Foley, AL after 12 years on the road http://bahnmilleradventure.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 PM'd OP one real world solution that worked for others including myself. Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mptjelgin Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Greg - I was doing the same in the past, but then my stock broker found out my "apartment" number was at a mail forwarder. USPS is coding addresses now, and the feds and brokers are using the information. It is only a matter of time (or a change in your accounts) that you too will be caught in the web. They found me when I added a additional 401K account. Sounds like OP Bill above was found out the same way. Very easy solution to comply with federal law is "next of kin" or "another contact person" as explicitly allowed by law. This always gets the same responses every time someone is caught up. Arguments that it should not be this way, arguments that "it hasn't affected me". Argue with the feds, write a letter to congress, whatever, but the new law is CLEAR. The solution is simple, please people do not make it more complex then it needs to be. I may never again post the solution again, because the arguments are ALWAYS the same. Perhaps "the arguments are ALWAYS the same" because a great many of us are using mail forwarding addresses without issue. From what I've read there is a lot of variation among financial institutions, and while you may be correct that eventually they will all trigger these requirements, the fact is that many are accepting mail forwarding addresses at this time without question. When you make statements like "You MUST do what I am suggesting for easiest, quickest, most effective way to solve your problem." you are overlooking the fact that I'm not having a problem at this time. Mark & Teri 2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350 Mark & Teri's Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Deleted. Not worth the hassle. Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2gypsies Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 We use Fidelity and Vanguard with our Escapees mail forwarding service with no problems. Full-timed for 16 YearsTraveled 8 yr in a 2004 Newmar Dutch Star 40' Motorhome and 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accumack Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 My wife and I don't have next of kin that we have anything to do with and explicitly deny them in our will to prevent them anything from our estate so there is no way we will use next of kin. So I guess we will have problems in the future. 2011 Berkshire 390-rb-40, upgraded tires and front axle airbags, 2012 Jeep Wrangler 2 door, Blue Ox baseplate and BlueOx aladdin tow bar, Blue Ox Patriot brake system, wiring run through right frame rail and homemade led taillight bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mptjelgin Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Did YOU give him a solution? No, you did NOT. The OP stated that they would be looking for an investment house that did not have the same requirements as Fidelity. I shared that Vanguard accepted our Rainbow Drive address without question. I consider that a possible solution... Mark & Teri 2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350 Mark & Teri's Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Deleted. This is why people stop posting solutions that are real world tested. Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mptjelgin Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Deleted all my responses. Apparently, the problem does not actually exist! This is why people stop posting solutions that are real world tested. Good grief, relax!! You seem to be offended that others are offering their real world experiences. Mark & Teri 2021 Grand Designs Imagine 2500RL, 2019 Ford F-350 Mark & Teri's Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 My wife and I don't have next of kin that we have anything to do with and explicitly deny them in our will to prevent them anything from our estate so there is no way we will use next of kin. So I guess we will have problems in the future. I can alleviate some of your concern. In this case, the 'next of kin" and "or of another contact individual" have no legal rights to your funds nor control of your funds whether you are living or deceased. It only gives a real world residential address. The broker never contacts my "next of kin", only myself and spouse at email and mail forward address. The broker only verified the residential address one time electronically (no real in person phone etc contact), and that was the end of it. If we are deceased, forms on file at the broker dictate "actual" distribution of funds. Silly rules, but that is how the law was written. If you have anyone at all willing to have you use their residential address one time to verify you exist, you are good to go. Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accumack Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 I just reread an article in Escapees magazine from may-june 2014 called defining your domicile by Shawn R. Loring page 13 he talks about this issue. He Says the right must be fought for on a company by company basis. And to alert him or Escapees headquarters if your Escapee address is rejected by a financial, investment or insurance company. 2011 Berkshire 390-rb-40, upgraded tires and front axle airbags, 2012 Jeep Wrangler 2 door, Blue Ox baseplate and BlueOx aladdin tow bar, Blue Ox Patriot brake system, wiring run through right frame rail and homemade led taillight bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Good grief, relax!! You seem to be offended that others are offering their real world experiences. Deleted. No response deserved. Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarDreamers.us Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 OK let us not get angry over possible solutions suggested. Not everyone will work for all readers. Free advice is just that. No strings attached. Read and use, but, do not abuse the advisor! Safe Travels! SKP #89742 - Lifetime membership - Member of the SKP Class of 2007Good Sam Club - Lifetime MemberDataStorm #5423Passport America - Lifetime MemberSons Of The American Revolution (SAR) - Lifetime MemberAmerican Legion - USAF - Lifetime MemberRotary Club Member - 30 years Escapee CARE Supporter National Wildlife Refuge Volunteer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 After reconsidering, I will post the info in the open for others who may need it. *** If you are not affected and have no issues with your broker please ignore this - it is of zero use to you and does not affect you. Some full time RVers are once again having problems with stock brokerages accepting mail forwarding addresses as "residential address". A real world tested solution some of us have successfully used follows: Ask the brokerage to use the next of kin rule (or another contact person)- as clearly identified within the patriot act rules. Send the brokerage the following text:---------- CIP (Customer Identification Program) rule (31 C.F.R. 103.121), which is the regulation implementing Section 326 of the USA PATRIOT Act that requires a financial institution to get the following customer information. (1) Name;(2) Date of birth, for an individual;(3) Address, which shall be:(i) For an individual, a residential or business street address; ***(ii) For an individual who does not have a residential or business street address, an Army Post Office (APO) or Fleet Post Office (FPO) box number, ****or the residential or business street address of next of kin or of another contact individual****; Example request letter:Format like this in letter to your broker: My next of kin (or other contact person)is _________:Name of personaddress of person (Include this text:)This complies with CIP (Customer Identification Program) rule ( 31 C.F.R. 103.121 ( )), which is the regulation implementing Section 326 of the USA PATRIOT Act that requires a financial institution to get the following customer information (bottom of page 480 from PDF above):(1) Name;(2) Date of birth, for an individual;(3) Address, which shall be:(i) For an individual, a residential or business street address;(ii) For an individual who does not have a residential or business street address, an Army Post Office (APO) or Fleet Post Office (FPO) box number, or the residential or business street address of next of kin or of another contact individual Thank you for your attention and immediate restoration (or creation) of my accounts. Your nameYour mail forwarder addressYour emailYour phone number Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjoe Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 I deleted my response. Real world tested solutions are not accepted and the problem is denied by those who have yet to experience it. The world is still flat. OP has what he needs - I PM'd it to him.. Thanks Dan. I will talk with Fidelity again tomorrow armed with the information you provided. I appreciate it. Bill 2010 Tiffin Allegro Bus 2012 Honda CRV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Perhaps "the arguments are ALWAYS the same" because a great many of us are using mail forwarding addresses without issue. From what I've read there is a lot of variation among financial institutions, and while you may be correct that eventually they will all trigger these requirements, the fact is that many are accepting mail forwarding addresses at this time without question. When you make statements like "You MUST do what I am suggesting for easiest, quickest, most effective way to solve your problem." you are overlooking the fact that I'm not having a problem at this time. That is not what I said and you are reading into it. I was answering the OP who DOES have a problem, not everyone with NO problem. If you are not having a problem, then why argue a real world tested solution that does not even affect you? Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC7880 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Thanks Dan. I will talk with Fidelity again tomorrow armed with the information you provided. I appreciate it. Bill Let us know if it works out, and also if it does not solve the problem. You may have to bump it up to supervision/management. I had to bump it up and I suspect they checked with their legal department who verified compliance. My broker was Trade King. . Dan - SKP club member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffMan Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 I can alleviate some of your concern. In this case, the 'next of kin" and "or of another contact individual" have no legal rights to your funds nor control of your funds whether you are living or deceased. It only gives a real world residential address. The broker never contacts my "next of kin", only myself and spouse at email and mail forward address. The broker only verified the residential address one time electronically (no real in person phone etc contact), and that was the end of it. If we are deceased, forms on file at the broker dictate "actual" distribution of funds. Silly rules, but that is how the law was written. If you have anyone at all willing to have you use their residential address one time to verify you exist, you are good to go. Seems like an opportunity for someone with a sticks n bricks house in Livingston to act as "next of kin" for the RV community to get their accounts verified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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