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Anyone full timing on 25000 a year?


Max Death

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I have been following this family as they have been traveling around Mexico for the past couple of years. They are having a very fascinating journey. While they are spending what looks like more than $25,000 a year, I thought the breakdown of their expenses would be appropriate for this discussion,

We looked at a used Travco of perhaps 5 years or so old back in the 70's and I still consider it to have been not only a classic but also one of the bust built in that era. It was sad to see the company fail.

 

As interesting as the life they lead is, I highly doubt that very many people would enjoy their lifestyle, if they did manage to copy them. I suspect that they are not only more adaptable than most people but also a lot more adventurous. There are things about their lifestyle which I might envy just a little, but not nearly enough to attempt to follow in their footsteps and I wonder if they plan to continue this forever? It would appear that they must have some source of significant funding as the boat the traveled with cost a lot more than that Travco, I'd bet. I didn't see anything to indicate what their source of funding is??

 

This is a site that I'll have to spend some time with as I'd not run across it previously. Very interesting.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Feb 2013 - They likely have scrolled off the forum active list and been removed, the software here automatically removes topics that have been inactive for a period of time.

Thank you Stanley. But what does this do to all the fantastic past articles which would be VERY useful for members? It kind of defeats the purpose of this forum, if after a couple of years you can no longer read or access the sage advice so many have offered over the past years.

 

We are taking on many new members, and wanting Escapees to grow, and then don't offer to the new members the full wisdom so many members have offered over the years defeats the purpose of our expanding this club. Would Travis be the one to contact regarding this situation, which I know I've read about over the years? At least the searching problem seems to have been fixed.

 

Happy Trails.

2009 Four Winds Chateau - 25' class C          2002 Chevy Tracker

1458033694__statesVisitedas-ofMarch-2012.jpg.b173645da4a43150ba2820dc7a6bdfc5.jpg

 

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We are taking on many new members, and wanting Escapees to grow, and then don't offer to the new members the full wisdom so many members have offered over the years defeats the purpose of our expanding this club. Would Travis be the one to contact regarding this situation, which I know I've read about over the years? At least the searching problem seems to have been fixed.

I suspect that the really old threads don't get read very often is part of the reason for the practice of dropping them. An advantage to asking a question again is that so much changes with time, but there is no doubt that at least some things would have value if kept. The second part of that would be a better means of searching for the information in those old threads.

 

Travis would be a good place to start as he is the primary admin for these forums. I can tell you that there are some tech information column features which are in the planning for future improvements to the website but the last that I spoke with anyone at Escapees on the subject it was not yet decided just how that would be instituted or what form it would take. I was told at the time that it was put on hold while they are dealing with other web features which have a higher priority. Suggestions are never a waste of time and I'm sure that someone will be interested but can't say if or when it might happen.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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Keeping everything would be wonderful but that costs money, more storage space plus a faster processor and more memory to deal with it, not sure where that would come from since the ads here don't pay for what we have now.

 

It would be nice to have an option to order a DVD of the forum contents each year, something you could browse off-line or after the live stuff has scrolled off. Again that comes down to who would do the work and how they'd get paid.

First rule of computer consulting:

Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day.

Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 9 months later...

Invest in a solar panel and stay at least part of the time in free off-grid campsites and you'll have no problem living on $25k a year! This past winter I spent 6 months in AZ and spent a grand total of about $70 on campsites. I full-time on well under $10k a year. I could live like a QUEEN on $25k!

Janis www.littlebittyliving.com

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It would be nice to have an option to order a DVD of the forum contents each year, something you could browse off-line or after the live stuff has scrolled off. Again that comes down to who would do the work and how they'd get paid.

 

A lonnnnng time ago, I used WebWhacker.

SKP #79313 / Full-Timing / 2001 National RV Sea View / 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
www.rvSeniorMoments.com
DISH TV for RVs

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To me, the definition of "rich" is having more money than you need or want. How much income you have is pretty much out of your control. You get the best education you can, work as hard as you can, and you will get what people are willing to pay you for what you do. How much wealth you need is mostly out of your control. Healthcare costs are so outrageous at this point that it can be an enormous factor. The other amount is how much wealth do you want? That one is totally within your control.

 

If you learn to live well within your means and invest the excess carefully, your investment will rapidly grow and as your income rises, provide even more for investment. It was amazing to me how quickly this philosophy works.

 

If you are the sort of person who covets the nice possessions of others, lusts after everything advertised on television and wants every new thing they see, it might be difficult for you live a happy live, no matter how much wealth you amass.

 

I was born in a house with a dirt floor and half grown before we got electricity and indoor plumbing. Of course I learned how to live (and be quite happy) with next to nothing. I worked my way through college and continued to expand my education at every opportunity and still do. My social security is around $24,000 per year which allows me to invest at least 20% of that annually. I have some IRA accounts that require me to take a minimum distribution every year, but I simply dump that back into investment accounts. I don't do that particularly because it makes me happy, but may as well, because I have everything I need - or - want.

 

I guess I could buy one of my great-great-grandkids a new house or a new car and if that honestly made them happy, then I would do it, because that would make me happy too. BUT, I have lived long enough and seen enough to clearly understand that it might briefly please them, but in the long run will make them less happy. My goal is to to stay out of their way and as much as I can, try to help them figure out what will make them happy and how they can get there. Because that's what is important and doesn't have anything to do with a specific amount of wealth or even particular possessions.

 

I can just wander through the world, trying my best to make it a better place and I can do that for well under $25,000 per year.

F-250 SCREW 4X4 Gas, 5th NuWa Premier 35FKTG, Full Time, Engineer Ret.

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If you are the sort of person who covets the nice possessions of others, lusts after everything advertised on television and wants every new thing they see, it might be difficult for you live a happy live, no matter how much wealth you amass.

 

I can just wander through the world, trying my best to make it a better place and I can do that for well under $25,000 per year.

 

I'm hoping there's some wiggle room between under $25K a year and "lusting & coveting". Or, as Oliver Twist said . . .

 

oliver_twist_david_lean_0.jpg

 

"Please, sir, I want some more"

SKP #79313 / Full-Timing / 2001 National RV Sea View / 2008 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
www.rvSeniorMoments.com
DISH TV for RVs

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That's my point, Zulu. If the goal is to be happy, it doesn't have anything to do with money or a budget. If the goal is to have the most (or at least as many as possible) toys when you die, then money will be one of the issues.

 

I suppose there are those who would feel full timing in an RV is one small step up from being homeless and not at all a satisfactory way to live - and they certainly wouldn't be happy doing it. But it is certainly possible below $25,000.

 

Each person will have to figure out what will make them happy. Living in an RV is inexpensive enough compared to living in an S&B to free up a lot of resources for other things.

F-250 SCREW 4X4 Gas, 5th NuWa Premier 35FKTG, Full Time, Engineer Ret.

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Living in an RV is inexpensive enough compared to living in an S&B to free up a lot of resources for other things.

 

I would replace "is" with "can be". Some people have a hard time with the concept of living inexpensively.

 

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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  • 3 months later...

Our total income last year was under $20K and we lived happily. Many "Could this get any better?" moments, many many more than when I worked fulltime and spent most nights watching TV. Money does bring security, Its nice to know that a truck problem can be fixed right now and you wont have to eat Ramen noodles for 6 months to pay for it. Problem is that many of us make/have made huge sacrifices in our happiness to get a small amount of security. Security that can disappear in a moment in the current economic climate. I'm working on having a lifestyle that doesnt use much in the way of resources and so doesnt need as much security so I dont have to work so hard to get it. Solar is a must along with boondocking all the time. Plus you get to meet such nice people!!

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Our total income last year was under $20K and we lived happily. Many "Could this get any better?" moments, many many more than when I worked fulltime and spent most nights watching TV. Money does bring security, Its nice to know that a truck problem can be fixed right now and you wont have to eat Ramen noodles for 6 months to pay for it. Problem is that many of us make/have made huge sacrifices in our happiness to get a small amount of security. Security that can disappear in a moment in the current economic climate. I'm working on having a lifestyle that doesnt use much in the way of resources and so doesnt need as much security so I dont have to work so hard to get it. Solar is a must along with boondocking all the time. Plus you get to meet such nice people!!

Thank you for sharing that real life experience. I am working on getting to that point and am doing the financial planning to figure out what that monthly income numer is. Good to know what is possible for what cost. And for your sharing the costless benefits of the lifestyle. We're on our way and so far enjoying the journey but am looking forward to a new journey in the future, one without the hub bub of "work" because I have to.

Marcel

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  • 5 months later...

I would like to see more of these people who spend $25k or less per year on full time RV-ing post their annual expenses in a very detailed manner like Kirk and Pam did on their web site.  I have a feeling there is some selective memory going on with some expenses.

My guess is many under 65 y/o folks who spend below $25k a year FT RV-ing are likely getting heavily subsidized health insurance though medicaid or big ACA subsidies, because their taxable incomes are kept so low.

Additionally, many people who have very low expenses workamp or boondock a lot.  Not everyone wants to boondock all the time or is it practical.  Often it puts one way out in the middle of nowhere far from any decent town, amenities, entertainment, a community, other people, events, etc....  Some people are major hermit recluse types and can sit alone in their RV in the middle of nowhere with their dogs or cats for months, but not everyone wants to do that with their life.   Also, there are other hassles with boondocking in relation to bathrooms, showing, electricity, roads, shopping, etc...

And some people don't want to be tied down to some area workamping 30 hrs a week and not have their time as their own everyday, just to save maybe a grand total of $1,500 on campsite fees over 3-4/mos in the summer.

There is nothing wrong with boodocking or workcamping as they are great ways for  to keep costs down for people who need to keep expenses really low.  I love the wilderness too sometimes.  But my point is that often people will brag and make statements that "I can live on WAY less than $25K full time RV-ing no problem"...but they rarely break out the numbers in detail to HOW that is accomplished, and it's not made clear that low overhead is attained living a much more austere life than 98% of people would be happy living in the modern day world.  And they say it like everything is easy peasy and there are like there are no hassles living on that little amount of money.  So thus when new people interested in full time RV-ing read these posts about how people can full time RV for <$25k a year, they get a romanticized and not fully accurate picture.

And lastly as I stated on another budget thread, too few RV-ers take into account depreciation of their RV and/or tow vehicle into their budget.  Yes depreciation is not technically money coming out of you pocket monthly.  But it is a BIG part of the total cost of ownership of full time RV-ing.  Especially for folks who buy the new expensive rigs.  But even for folks who buy used rigs, depreciation can still be significant.  If you full time RV for 5 years and then sell your rig after that, deprecation could break out to cost you $4,000, $5,000 or more annually that many people are not accounting for in their numbers in the total cost of ownership of the RV lifestyle.  Yes depreciation is not a monthly outflow, but if you pay $100k for a new RV and sell it 5 yrs later for $50k, that is a REAL $50k you no longer have and was an expense of your RV lifestyle you would not have had in a S&B life.

With all that said, I think RV-ing is a super cool fun thing to do.  And that is why I'm on this forum.  But I think sometimes it can be over romanticized a bit, some peoples math on the total cost of full time RV-ing can be a bit "fuzzy" at times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Also another point I like to look at is what is my PRE-tax income has to be to support my RV lifestyle.  Say someones total expenses are $3,500/mo or $42,000 a year to full time RV.  If they pay 20% in income taxes, that means they would have to make $52,500 GROSS pre-tax annually to cover their NET $42,000 full time RV living overhead.

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We call full timing in our old motorhome " The Halfway House between conventional living and the Old Folks Home" !

Still seeing Places we have never seen before and others that we thought we would never see again!

.

homelesshartshorns | Trying to spend the last Dollar on the Last Day! (wordpress.com)

George Hartshorn | Facebook

 

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5 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

I would like to see more of these people who spend $25k or less per year on full time RV-ing post their annual expenses in a very detailed manner

Some people are major hermit recluse types and can sit alone in their RV in the middle of nowhere with their dogs or cats for months

Your perception of what a typical boondockers lifestyle is like is extremely out of whack, and a bit offensive, but that's for another thread. 

I've always hesitated to really sit down and work out what my yearly expenses are. After all... I'M RETIRED and paperwork suc**s! I do save receipts out of habit, but generally speaking... my only form of "budgeting" is filling my wallet when it get's empty and seeing how quickly it empties out. ;) 

I've been slowly putting receipts together since January simply so others could see a "case study" of what a "monthly nut" might look like. The following are 2016's monthly averages, full-time single boondocker and not including: Income/property taxes, health care (I opt to pay my penalty) or expenses personally specific to me (Ie., FAA/inspection/tarmac/fuel/hangar/related fees, etc.)

I didn't workcamp, CG, or FHU. I did spend 7 weeks in volunteer positions, however, I already had paid usage permits for those areas.

This does not include depreciation. If I did that I would also have to include investment income. This isn't a P&L and makes no sense to be so... simply averaged monthly expenses.  

Communications
Cellular $5 (Tracfone)
Cell. Internet $22
Sat. Internet $70
Sat. TV $40
--- $137

Auto/Trailer:
Insurance $50
Reg/Tags $11
--- $61 

Fuel:
Diesel $75
LP $22
Gas/White $15
--- $112

Memberships/Mail:
Club memberships $15 (Costco, P.A., SKP, NRA, Rocky Mnt Elk)
Mail forwarding $9
--- $24

Misc:
Sport Licenses/tags $37
Camp/usage permits $22
Storage $47
Dump fees $7
Household/auto cleaning/consumable products $9
--- $122

Consumables:
Grocery $80
Eating out $22
Clothing $24
"Bait n bullets" $12
--- $148

Funded:
Repair/Maint. fund $200
Mod/toy/tools fund $125
Gift fund $50
Donations $100
--- $475 

So my "nut" was approx. $600/mnth. "Funding" myself.. that goes up to approx. $1100/mnth or $13,200/yr.

Conclusion: With the caveat that actually equipping a new rig for someone just starting out WILL cost a pretty penny the first year or two... for an "established" full-timer, living under 25k/yr is QUITE doable with no great hardship or sacrifice.

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5 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

My guess is many under 65 y/o folks who spend below $25k a year FT RV-ing are likely getting heavily subsidized health insurance though medicaid or big ACA subsidies,

In our case, prior to Medicare, our insurance was supplied by my former employer and we paid a premium that was subsidized. I no longer show those years since they were 2000 - 2007 and prior to the ACA.

5 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Additionally, many people who have very low expenses workamp or boondock a lot.

We did work-camp as volunteers, at first to stretch our income but after a time we found that we just loved the experiences that came with our chosen locations. But as you say, not everyone wishes to do this. We chose this partly for the places we stayed with our RV on parks and wildlife refuges. 

5 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

And lastly as I stated on another budget thread, too few RV-ers take into account depreciation of their RV and/or tow vehicle into their budget.

No doubt about it, if the RV is to be a truly permanent home it will likely need to be replaced at some point in them, or your maintenance costs will steadily rise with age. How long that takes to happen depends a great deal on the quality/cost of the chosen RV. We never thought that our RV would be our final home and so had set aside funds to use for the purchase of a home once circumstances changed. Out goal was to be on the road 15 to 20 years and we managed 12 when medical issues interfered. 

5 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

deprecation could break out to cost you $4,000, $5,000 or more annually 

That is very close to what ours figured out to be and we kept the RV for a total of 14 years, then sold it to downsize. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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48 minutes ago, Yarome said:

...Communications

Cellular $5 (Tracfone)
Cell. Internet $22
Sat. Internet $70
Sat. TV $40
--- $137

Yarome,

Communications services is one area where it seems that costs are highly variable and also very dependent on the level of usage. I've read accounts of folks paying over $200/month just for cell phone and data, Our Verizon (supposedly unlimited)plan with unlimited calls and text, 22GB of unthrottled data and 10GB of unthrottled hotspot per device for two devices costs $188/month. Some folks find it necessary to have plans with more than one carrier to ensure connectivity,

Would you be so kind as to provide a little more detail such as how many minutes of cellphone, how much cell and satellite  data, what Sat TV services/speeds?  For example, our Direct TV costs $20/month just for the Major Network feeds and requires at least a basic plan in addition.

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13 hours ago, Yarome said:

Your perception of what a typical boondockers lifestyle is like is extremely out of whack, and a bit offensive, but that's for another thread. 

I've always hesitated to really sit down and work out what my yearly expenses are. After all... I'M RETIRED and paperwork suc**s! I do save receipts out of habit, but generally speaking... my only form of "budgeting" is filling my wallet when it get's empty and seeing how quickly it empties out. ;) 

I've been slowly putting receipts together since January simply so others could see a "case study" of what a "monthly nut" might look like. The following are 2016's monthly averages, full-time single boondocker and not including: Income/property taxes, health care (I opt to pay my penalty) or expenses personally specific to me (Ie., FAA/inspection/tarmac/fuel/hangar/related fees, etc.)

I didn't workcamp, CG, or FHU. I did spend 7 weeks in volunteer positions, however, I already had paid usage permits for those areas.

This does not include depreciation. If I did that I would also have to include investment income. This isn't a P&L and makes no sense to be so... simply averaged monthly expenses.  

Communications
Cellular $5 (Tracfone)
Cell. Internet $22
Sat. Internet $70
Sat. TV $40
--- $137

Auto/Trailer:
Insurance $50
Reg/Tags $11
--- $61 

Fuel:
Diesel $75
LP $22
Gas/White $15
--- $112

Memberships/Mail:
Club memberships $15 (Costco, P.A., SKP, NRA, Rocky Mnt Elk)
Mail forwarding $9
--- $24

Misc:
Sport Licenses/tags $37
Camp/usage permits $22
Storage $47
Dump fees $7
Household/auto cleaning/consumable products $9
--- $122

Consumables:
Grocery $80
Eating out $22
Clothing $24
"Bait n bullets" $12
--- $148

Funded:
Repair/Maint. fund $200
Mod/toy/tools fund $125
Gift fund $50
Donations $100
--- $475 

So my "nut" was approx. $600/mnth. "Funding" myself.. that goes up to approx. $1100/mnth or $13,200/yr.

Conclusion: With the caveat that actually equipping a new rig for someone just starting out WILL cost a pretty penny the first year or two... for an "established" full-timer, living under 25k/yr is QUITE doable with no great hardship or sacrifice.

Thanks for the numbers.  Sorry if my post came off as offensive didn't mean it that way.  I think boondocking is terrific, it just has hassles and challenges for some.

I don't see any campground/park fees here?   Fuel is very low do you not move around much?  Grocery at $80/mo is quite impressive, never have seen it that low.  I didn't see health care on the list?

 

 

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13 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

In our case, prior to Medicare, our insurance was supplied by my former employer and we paid a premium that was subsidized. I no longer show those years since they were 2000 - 2007 and prior to the ACA.

We did work-camp as volunteers, at first to stretch our income but after a time we found that we just loved the experiences that came with our chosen locations. But as you say, not everyone wishes to do this. We chose this partly for the places we stayed with our RV on parks and wildlife refuges. 

No doubt about it, if the RV is to be a truly permanent home it will likely need to be replaced at some point in them, or your maintenance costs will steadily rise with age. How long that takes to happen depends a great deal on the quality/cost of the chosen RV. We never thought that our RV would be our final home and so had set aside funds to use for the purchase of a home once circumstances changed. Out goal was to be on the road 15 to 20 years and we managed 12 when medical issues interfered. 

That is very close to what ours figured out to be and we kept the RV for a total of 14 years, then sold it to downsize. 

Thanks Kirk.  By the way, I really enjoyed reading your web site and your comments on this forum.  And I thought you have one of the best most detailed honest annual expense logs I've seen out there (and I have read though at least a dozen of them on various RV blogs!).  

In reading these dozen or so annual expense reports of various full time RV-ers, all of them seem to boondock 50% of the time + or workamp.  So their annual campground expenses may be a lower than I would see.  I was curious if there are some estimates for total annual campground fees for folks who do not workamp/volunteer for free sites, and boondock maybe 25% or less of the year.  Can be a combination of RV Parks, State Parks, Nat. Parks, Fraternal org. parks, city parks, etc...  And with using some of the common memberships to save money.   And there may be some month long+ stays at one park/campground.  Just curious on what this runs for these types of travelers.  I do know it can vary greatly.  I'm 47 so I would not get the 50% off Sr. Discount at parks.

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10 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

...In reading these dozen or so annual expense reports of various full time RV-ers, all of them seem to boondock 50% of the time + or workamp.  So their annual campground expenses may be a lower than I would see.  I was curious if there are some estimates for total annual campground fees for folks who do not workamp/volunteer for free sites, and boondock maybe 25% or less of the year.  Can be a combination of RV Parks, State Parks, Nat. Parks, Fraternal org. parks, city parks, etc...  And with using some of the common memberships to save money.   And there may be some month long+ stays at one park/campground.  Just curious on what this runs for these types of travelers...

Rather than trying to find someone with a camping style that meets your parameters, perhaps looking at the per night cost for paid nights and then predicting costs based on your projected plans would help you estimate camping costs.

Monthly rates are usually the most economical, but can vary widely from $250/month up depending on location and sometimes time of year. One also needs to know if electric is included as it can add a significant amount if much cooling or heating is needed.

In my experience, nightly rates and weekly rates usually include electric. It may be helpful to know if the average rates are based on a membership like thousand trails, Coast to Coast, etc and whether the membership fees and any annual dues are averaged into the nightly cost.

In 2014 and 2015, our campground costs for paid stays averaged $27 and $29.  In 2016, our nightly costs for paid stays averaged $25.54 (including the cost of a nonresident New Mexico Camping Pass and Passport America membership).  Costs ranged from $5.00 to $57.00/night. This year so far (travelling through Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee) we have had more trouble finding vacancies than any year since 2004. Our nightly average for paid stays currently stands at $33.99 and includes 3 nights at $70/night which is the most we have ever paid.  All of this travel was in the lower 48 and we had no monthly stays. We had at least water and electric at each site,

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1 hour ago, trailertraveler said:

In 2014 and 2015, our campground costs for paid stays averaged $27 and $29.  In 2016, our nightly costs for paid stays averaged $25.54 (including the cost of a nonresident New Mexico Camping Pass and Passport America membership).  Costs ranged from $5.00 to $57.00/night. This year so far (travelling through Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee) we have had more trouble finding vacancies than any year since 2004. Our nightly average for paid stays currently stands at $33.99 and includes 3 nights at $70/night which is the most we have ever paid. 

Based on our recent travels, these look like very solid figures. Now that we are back to part-time we don't do much "volunteer for campsite" and usually pay for a site somewhere. One thing it also demonstrates is that the cost per night is very much impacted by where you happen to spend time. We find that in the east the rates are much higher, probably mostly from the fact that there are fewer RV parks and the rental season tends to be shorter. The west coast is also high because zoning restrictions & land prices make parks harder to develop and operate. The midsection of the country tends to be least expensive and rural areas cost less than "tourist popular" areas. In 2016 we spent nearly twice as much for RV sites as we did this past spring on our trip west. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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